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2 Caliper Choices w/e-brakes? for 14BFF Disc Brake Kit

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by az88k5, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. az88k5

    az88k5 1/2 ton status

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    I am currently looking to purchase the 14BoltFF disc brake conversion kit. I know the calipers you use are 76-78 Eldorado w/parking brake. I have heard people do not like the fact that the e brake cable runs below the axle. Kert from DIY4x.com makes a Disc Brake Kit with 8 holes to move the calipers and e-brake cable up. I also found that TSM offers a Caddy caliper with the ebrake cable in a different position. Are they that much different? TSM named these caliper Large GM rear calipers and does not mention what vehicle they were used on and that are only available from TSM INC. for $320 a piar! :eek1: Does anyone have any input on useing these calipers or have a GM part number? I heard they come of a Caddy Fleetwood and Seville, are they worth the coin? let me know guys. Here are some pictures for you to compare.

    http://www.tsmmfg.com/Rebuilt_Calipers.htm

    • 76-78 Caddy Elderado rear calipers w/e-brake (Top picture)
    • Large GM rear calipers w/e-brake (Bottom picture) Caddy Fleetwood and Seville levers, brackets and springs

    76-78 caddy calipers.jpg

    New LG GM calipers.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  2. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    The caliper is mechanically identical; the difference is in the parking brake linkage, which is, as far as I know, unique to TSM.

    -- A
     
  3. az88k5

    az88k5 1/2 ton status

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    So if I want these I have to purchase through TSM and can not order thought GM? Anyone running these calipers have any pictures of these mounted to your 14 Bolt FF? If so post them up. Thanks
     
  4. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    If you want the one with the special p-brake linkage that only TSM makes, yep, you gotta buy theirs.

    If you wanna make your own linkage, then any Caddy caliper will do, or clock the thing, run a driveshaft parking brake, etc etc.

    -- A
     
  5. az88k5

    az88k5 1/2 ton status

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    is there an advantage to using TSM style of spring and lever on these caddy calipers. Is it worth the $300? They sell both style caddy calipers but they use there style spring and lever for there 14boltFF disc brake conversion kit. Does there style spring and lever design better for clearence isues with brake line? What is the normal going rate for rebuildt caddy calipers at say napa or autozone? I can't see paying $300 for calipers.
     
  6. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Nor can I, though mine came with my Blackbird kit.

    Basically, their style lever goes "up" over the axle, instead of down under it, the way the stock ones do. The other option is to mount the calipers backwards left-to-right, which makes running the parking brake lines easier but means you gotta remove the calipers to bleed them.

    If it's any consolation, I ran my p-brake linkage under the axles. :wink1:

    -- A
     
  7. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    If you guys are talking about the calipers in the lower pic let me show you my caliper set-up. ALL FACTORY GM PARTS. The only caliper that will fit the rotor width is 76-78 caddy eldo, i used the caddy fleetwood and seville levers, brackets and springs.

    In order to use the fleetwood and seville brackets and springs you must drill and tap one hole in each caliper to attach the bracket.

    Caddy rear disc brake cailpers 001.jpg

    Caddy rear disc brake cailpers 002.jpg
     
  8. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    I went with the TSM Large GM calipers. So far, I haven't gotten them to hold the truck with only the e-brake on. However, I believe my problem is that I made the e-brake cables way too long. I screwed up on my measurements and ordered them from Custon Control Cables so long I had to loop them up and back down again. I will be ordering new cables so that they are closer to the stock setup and see what happens.
     
  9. 4x4_76

    4x4_76 1/2 ton status

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    Can anyone tell, what is the rear GAWR on 76-78 Caddy Eldo? I was going to use Eldo calibers, but our law requires that if any brake part that's changed (drums to disc in this case), it has to be from vehicle that has at least same, or greater GAWR.

    If I can't use Eldo calibers, next option is t-case brake.
     
  10. MattK

    MattK 1/2 ton status

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    not that i discourage trying to stay legal, but would an inspector know the difference?
     
  11. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    yeah, after all, arent they K30 calipers... :whistle:
     
  12. AussieK5

    AussieK5 1/2 ton status

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    Sorry to get off track on this thread.

    I have similiar issues with the 'tech' guys around here, they will however accept anything posted to the internet that is presented to them in printed form as gospel. :haha:

    They really have zero knowledge individually, and as a collective can just recognise its not a Toyota.

    This was from my intial K5 inspection for my state:

    - I was grilled by one elderly tech guy who had no idea what engine K5's came with, but was sure a 350 was 'too big'. I have a friend who works near him and he informs me the guys been a DMV inspector for 20 years. The mind boggles.
    - He refused to acknowledge the VIN even though he could see it and touch it as Australia had no VIN's in 79'. I now have the chassis production part stamping as my VIN, they are different on both sides of the chassis, they only located one :haha:

    To head of further shennagins I asked what they need information wise to reg my vehicle, and was told any published data would be helpful. I produced one an A4 printed 79 brouchure from links on this site. Now I'm pretty Photochop savvy and could have had them believing any chit I wanted.

    Two main points here:
    Go in armed to the teeth with the info 'you' want them to have.
    If they dont know the answer, the answer will be no until you give them an out.

    You have an opportunity to raise your GVWR, widen the 'factory' tire size and add rear discs with just a little computer time. These are all reasonable changes, the old GVWR is on the low side as it was a function of the tires in that era, 8 - 8.5+ size rims are well suited to these trucks and well, discs are a massive step forward in stopping safety.

    Jason
     
  13. 4x4_76

    4x4_76 1/2 ton status

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    That's excatly how it goes here, too. I need a load of documents to get my 'Burban registered, like from radius arms, panhard bar, brakes, axles etc. Basicly from everything that's been changed.

    Two different inspectors told me that I need to get document from manufacturer, or manufacturers presentative, that shows that my 'Burban is identical to factory 4wd model. But how do I get such a document, when my truck is not identical? 4wd models came with leafs up front, I will have coils. Nor with 1 ton axles :D I try to convince inspector with brochures and spare part catalogs and stuff like that.

    I don't want to make forgery of any datasheet, because there's always some jealous individual that makes complaints to dmv and so making things hard to others. That's happened before, and may happend again.
     
  14. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    So if it is better, say upgraded brakes, it won't pass inspection?
     
  15. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    It's a matter of certifying the modifications. For the most part, the US doesn't have very stringent rules on things like that. Alot of other places in the civilized world do. Modifications to major systems, like steering and brakes, need to be certified to be able to put the car on the road. You say it's better, but who's to believe you. Some of the scary steering people say their mod is better as well.

    He should be able to, pehaps, take his burb to a shop and have them certify the modifications. Well, at least that's what a guy I knew in France did when he modd'd his Buick G-National there.
     
  16. 4x4_76

    4x4_76 1/2 ton status

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    One guy here used front brake parts on rear axle (don't remember what 4x4 it was), and the safety inspector said that he can't use front brake parts on rear axle, because rear has bigger GAWR. Lucky for me, I'm building 10-series 'Burban and can use 20 and 30-series parts, that have bigger front GAWR, so I won't have problems in that.

    I found program that you can use to calculate brake balance. Wasn't help for me, but I wonder if I could show calculations that show that Eldo calibers have better stopping ability than stock 10-series drums. Even though Eldo may have lower rear GAWR.

    Is there a such a program, or even a math formula?
     
  17. 4x4_76

    4x4_76 1/2 ton status

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    Last night, when I was trying to sleep, I had an idea to route those parking brake cables out of harms way. I may require to fab all the brackets and levers, I think that any factory part won't work.

    First, lever that actuates the brake, needs to be turn 90 degrees up. Then a bracket should be made to where lever is on stock setup. End of the cable attaches to this bracket. Then, maybe the stock lever can be modified to accept cable core.

    Idea is to move cable above the axle tube, and so that cable core moves the brake lever, not the calbe itself.

    Hope you understand what I mean, I'm on coffeebreak so no time to write too precisely.
     
  18. 1977k5

    1977k5 3/4 ton status Vendor

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    I cannibalized my stock front calipers for the rear disc swap. One line lock later, I have a useable and cheap parking brake.

    Some people question the fact that my "parking" brake relies on hydraulics as opposed to the mechanical setup that the factory had. IMO, you shouldn't trust any emergency/parking brake setup on an incline where your vehicle could do damage. Keep your wheels turned or chock your wheels with something (a rock, something you keep in the truck, etc.). My truck has never popped out of gear but it is something I always think about because of the potential consequenses.

    I have a friend who installed caddy calipers on his disc'd 14 bolt and ended up selling them and getting a HAD driveshaft e-brake because the caddy calipers were pathetic. From what I have heard, he is not alone. Just my .02
     
  19. 4x4_76

    4x4_76 1/2 ton status

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    If I want to keep my 'Burban legal, it must have mechanical e-brake. Someone told that they got their hydraulic e-brake pass the inspection, but when I made a call to dmv's tech support, they told that only mechanical is allowed.

    So, now my only option is to use driveshaft e-brake. And I found all the needed parts to fab it.

    You're right on fact that not to trust e-brake on inclines. If it possible, I usually park to place where my truck stays even without e-brake. And on inclines I don't leave truck, I stay in to press brake pedal and co-driver goes out if needed.
     
  20. Leper

    Leper 1/2 ton status

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    Hardoffroad on Ebay sells the complete disc conversion with e/brake for 475.00 shipped. Best price out there. Shane74 with Blackwidow performance(vendor here) sells a kit also. Per a conversation we had a while back, the main reason people don't like the ebrake calipers is because they are not setting them up and using them properly.
     

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