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205 shifting

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by TheGeneral, Dec 29, 2001.

  1. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    Have the doubler in and the linkage on, but wondering the shift pattern for the 205. I recall it being
    4L
    N
    2H
    4H
    If that is the case, then I am trying to figure out where my four shifts are going to come from. I get 4L, N, 4H. Don't know where my 2H is. Now it has me thinking. The range rail has 3 poppets, the shift rail has 3. How are these aligned to get four different settings. When I installed the rails, they were right, as was the crosslink between the rails, but the shifter pushes each rail in one poppet at a time together. Is this how it is supposed to be. The only thing I can think of is that right now I don't have the front output yoke on and torqued, so is this allowing some slop in the shift rail/fork? Anyone that can shed some light, please do as it is driving me crazy trying to figure out the shift sequence.

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  2. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    the 4h to 2h shift only moves the front drive shift clutch
    think of them as 2 seperate trannies
    having hi-neutral-lo

    4high has both front and rear in HI
    2high has front in Neutral and rear in HI
    neutral has both in neutral
    4lo has both front and rear in LO

    dunno if that helped but ...


    formerly 77chev
     
  3. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    Mike, its sounds like you know what I am talking about. Could you explain it to me in terms of the rails. Neutral for me right now is each rail is in the middle poppet. Is that the starting point for shift through the other gears or should one rail be at a different point in its throw? The brain is melting on this one. I actually have a mock up on my desk right now trying to logic the whole thing. Thanks man.

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  4. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    No sweat,
    you are at an advantage as I dont have the rails in front of me but I will try and pull it out of my ...

    both rails in N is good starting point
    (remember the rail moves opposite of the shifter when you are thinking about which way the rails move)

    lets call the rails,
    REAR = rear output shaft
    FRONT = front output shaft

    to get '2hi' a tug on the shifter pops REAR rail forward, FRONT rail stays in neutral

    (very difficult to feel the difference between these 2 positions, I usually get the TC in 2hi before unlocking the hubs as I can do a few dry hops to make sure it is in 2hi)

    to get '4hi' a full pull back on the shifter pops both rails forward

    from neutral again, ramming the shifter forward pushes both rails back together to the LO side.

    still lost?
    I can draw a power flow chart for each gear position?

    you can tell me if the detents are different(deeper) between
    the rails or if the connecting bar is wholey responsible for the 2hi/4hi shift.

    formerly 77chev<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by m j on 12/29/01 09:09 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  5. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    Roger, but reference neutral as far as the rails go. Is neutral the center poppet on each rail. You get this, and I should understand it. Thanks again. People are probably thinking, Oh Sh(*&amp;, they are at it again (old post reference). LOL

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  6. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    yes N is both rails centre'd

    formerly 77chev
     
  7. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    Yea, I got it, but I can't seem to get the dam thing to shift the crosslink without moving both rails at the same time. You said it is very difficult to feel the 2H to 4H, so is it a really short throw, and I have just been shifting it all the way from N to 4H. I will try it tomorrow and let you know. Thanks again.

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  8. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    can you play with it with the vehicle rolling a bit? or driving?
    pull the TC shifter boot and you may be able to watch the front driveshaft

    formerly 77chev
     
  9. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Hmm, could the detent balls and/or springs be missing or weak? I think that is what would prevent the front rail from moving until the rear rail is in the HI position.

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  10. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    It is morning, and the only thing I can figure is week detent springs. I will check that out today and see what is the deal. I don't have shafts on yet or a front output shaft flange, so I am thinking the torque normally placed on the 4 wheel shifter rail is absent making it easy for it to shift with the other rail. I now have a good picture of the shift pattern, just need to wait until I get the new flange. Hopefully that is it, but if not this will be revisited. Thanks again for input.

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  11. RGF

    RGF 1/2 ton status

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    MJ pretty much explained it as best as you can, it is very easy to jump right by 2H because you are moving only one rail instead of both like in the other positions.
    The rail connecter bar is slotted on one side to allow it to pivot for that one position,I would look at that bar some and make sure that there is no binding.It sounds like it might not want to pivot well and just goes by,I have had to do a little grinding on the bar in the past after putting in new pins because it was to tight.
    If I remember correctly you just rebuilt this? Have you put any gear oil in yet,I usually put a half a qt. or so of gear oil in before put the PTO cover on so everything gets some lube and works smoothly for the bench test!

    RGF
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    I was going to ask for some history if you were still having trouble.
    a fresh rebuild could have tight rail seals.
    easiest to find 2hi from 4hi, a quick tap forward.
    I do think you are worrying for nothing, that bad boy is going to kick XXX

    formerly 77chev
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    That's how I find 2HI...I pull it all the way back into 4HI and then give it a little bump forward. The detents are not that precise...

    Rene

    <font color=green>Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!</font color=green>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/project_T2> tRusty pics...</a>
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    He said, "without moving both rails at the same time" which lead me to believe he (or someone) was watching while the shifter was moved. I haven't been inside a 205 in about 12 years (and I can't remember what I did last night) but, shouldn't it prevent the "front" rail from moving till the "rear" rail is in the high position? You can definitely miss the detent feel from inside but, if both rods are really moving together then there is no way to find 2HI unless they happen to move separate coming back for 4HI.

    BTW, I've also had to use the 4HI back to 2HI many times.

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  15. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    That's how I find 2HI...I pull it all the way back into 4HI and then give it a little bump forward. The detents are not that precise...

    <hr></blockquote>
    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    BTW, I've also had to use the 4HI back to 2HI many times.

    <hr></blockquote>
    Me, too. I have never been successful at popping to 2HI from Nuetral or 4LO. Always easier to pop to 4HI and bump back to 2HI. [​IMG]



    I'm not picking my nose...I'm just pointing at my brain!! [​IMG]

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  16. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    now I am pissed!
    a thread with lots of replies and noone called me a moron!

    formerly 77chev
     
  17. TheGeneral

    TheGeneral 1/2 ton status

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    Well the good news is I found 2H and 4H. m j and several of you were right in reference to easy to miss. Sapper helped me figure it out by doing the shifting while I looked at linkage.

    If you ain't hurt, you ain't playin' hard enough.

    The General
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Glad it worked out for you without any major hassles (like pulling it back out).

    Oh, mj, your a moron! [​IMG] [​IMG] J/K

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  19. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    Moron! J/K. [​IMG]
    Feel bettere now. LOL

    <font color=green> Too bad ignorance isn't painful </font color=green>
     
  20. DUKE

    DUKE 1/2 ton status

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    moron

    DUKE
    Why go around when you can go over?
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