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208 shifter for a 205, thoughts?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by dyeager535, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I actually "bolted" (loosely) the 208 shifter to the '86's floor, and hooked it up to the 205. Amazingly didn't need to modify anything, at least thus far. Of course, now I can't get enough leverage (as far as I can tell) to get it out of 2hi. I might be able to really yank on it, but I didn't have to with the 205 shifter, so...

    The problem as I see it is (as anyone knows that has a 205) the shifter pivot is very low (at the adapter) for the 205. The 208 lever pivots *just* under the floorpan. Probably 4" difference. If the 208 and 205 shifters are 18" (and almost perfectly straight, for example) the 208 pivot is at 9" from either end, the 205 would be about 15" on the cab side of the pivot, and 3" on the t-case side of the pivot.

    Since the 208 pivot isn't really adjustable, (for numerous reasons I have to keep the pivot and everything above it intact) and the lower end connects to the 205 at exactly the right height (the small link bar isn't binding) any ideas on how to make it work easier?

    I knew this would at least take some work to do right, so I'm not worried about it, but the pivot has me a bit perplexed.

    The shifter for the 208 can be thought of as perfectly straight from top to bottom. I'm trying to figure out (and its not working) if I were to change the angle of the shifter UNDER the pivot more towards the front of the truck, if that would increase the amount of leverage.

    If it's just not possible without changing the pivot location or changing the length of the shifter handle itself(neither of which *is* possible) I'll forget it, but I'd really like to make this 208 shifter work with the 205.

    Thoughts? Ideas?
     
  2. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    Thinking of basic statics and dynamics, changing the design of the shifter itself will have no impact on the leverage involved. The only mods that would improve the leverage is the movement of the pivot point. This can be done by either physically moving the shift point further from the handle, and in essence lengthening the throw of the handle versus the lower connection, or physically lengthening the shift itself above the pivot point to achieve the same objective.

    From what you are saying, however, this doesn't seem to be an option for you. That is one fo the reasons I am expecting to have to replace my 208 shitfer with a 205 shifter when I complete my swap.
     
  3. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    What tranny you running in front of the 205?
     
  4. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Sinse you can't move the pivot point, I would say your only option is lengthening the shifter on the upper part.
     
  5. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    465

    Can't lengthen the upper and make it look good for one thing (its chrome) and second, the trim plate of the shifter relegates you to only so much travel, and the travel must match the trim piece.

    Sure you can hack the trim piece apart, but what looks worse: hacked apart trim piece, or hacked apart floor? Both look bad unfortunately.

    I really need to look at a later one ton opening closely. It sure seems they used the same boot forever, but the floor opening for the 208 is way too big for the 205 boot. You would think they would have used the same hole, and just made the 205 boot larger to compensate, but doesn't appear so. The floors aren't listed as different in the parts manual, so who knows. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    My 205 shifter came through the same hole the 208 shifter assembly was. No trimming involved. I used a shifter boot from a F-250 and called it good. It ain't a show truck, but you'd be hard pressed to tell it wasn't factory...

    Rene
     
  7. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, my criteria are: I won't cut any holes in the floor pan, and it can't look like garbage. I'm open to any ideas really, I have no qualms about cutting a trim plate to fit, or drilling holes in it, it just has to cover that hole, seal, and allow me to bolt it to the floor in the 208 location.

    You have a picture of what it looks like? For a 205 application I'm assuming? (year by any chance?)

    I didn't have to trim anything to make the 205 fit, I had to heat the handle up and move it over about an inch to clear (probably just worn motor/trans mounts) but other than that, its fine.


    Anyone know if the 203 shifter boot/retainer plate is any bigger than the 205, but similar in design?
     
  8. BigBen

    BigBen 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Just to follow up:

    If both shifters are 18" long and the lengths are:
    CabSide/LinkageSide
    15/3 for the 205
    and
    9/9 for the 208

    Your mechanical advantage on the 205 shifter is 3:1. The T-case linkage sees 3x the force you put in, but moves 1/3 as far.

    Now with the 208 shifter you have a 1:1 advantage over the T-case. That means the T-case will see the same force/displacement that you do. Compared to the 205 shifter, you will need to pull 3x as hard, but 1/3 as far. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    These ratios are based on the distance of the force application from the pivot. You could bend that shifter in all sorts of strange shapes, but the force X distance rule still stands. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Unfortunately you are a victim of Physics. Unless you're going to come up with some really trick sort of mechanism, there's no easy fix except lower the pivot or lengthen the handle in the cab......

    Sorry.

    -Ben
     
  9. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Unfortunately you are a victim of Physics. Unless you're going to come up with some really trick sort of mechanism, there's no easy fix except lower the pivot or lengthen the handle in the cab......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Or use the right fricking shifter lol.

    You'd *think* pulling 3 times as hard wouldn't be a big issue, but apparently it is. Perhaps when I've got it bolted down nice and tight, it will behave a bit differently. Sure doesn't look like it though.
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I didn't have to heat or bend anything. Original was a 465/208 and the truck is an 81. I swapped in a 465/205 from a 77 K20.

    The boot I got is rectangular at the bottom, covered the hole perfectly and doesn't look like a hack job. I bought it at a swap meet and was told it was from a 70's vintage F250 4x4.

    I'll snap a pic tonight or tomorrow night.

    Rene
     
  11. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I have a feeling that the alignment of the crossmember is off a hair, coupled with the worn out mount(s)is why mine hit. It was close during normal driving, but accelerating it would tap the body as it torqued over a bit. I know its not an issue with the body being different in '86 than yours, just tolerances/wear/install differences.

    I'd appreciate a pic or two, I'm going to the 'yard Saturday looks like, so maybe I'll get lucky and find one.
     
  12. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I had a '79 F-150 that came with a C6 and a 205. So that may be another place to find a 205 shift boot. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'll buy a 12 roll of film for my camera. I will be snapping a few pic's of flexin the truck, maybe some new fender trim pic's and one or two of the 205 shifter for you. Prolly be up sunday on my Webshots.

    Rene
     
  14. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

    Can't lengthen the upper and make it look good for one thing (its chrome) and second, the trim plate of the shifter relegates you to only so much travel, and the travel must match the trim piece.
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />


    Lengthening the upper portion of the shifter will not change how far it will move in the trim piece. That part will travel just as much because you are not touching the pivot.
    You will need more room because the "top" of the shifter will travel further. You could find a piece of aluminum (or favorite shiny metal), drill the end and tap it for the threads, screw it onto where the shifter knob bolted and then go from there (adjust height as necessary). THis is assuming all you need is more leverage, and that you have the room for the added height and top throw with the shifter and that it doesn't interfere with the manual shifter (assuming manual tranny).
     
  15. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Yes, I guess that would work no problem. I could always scuff/paint the chrome and use plain steel. Not a bad idea, thanks.

    I can just imagine though, its going to look like one of those hot rod cartoons, with the shifter sticking up about 4 feet lol.

    I did notice that without the trim plate to keep it in place, the 208 shifter does prevent me from getting the 465 into reverse, but thats just because the trim plate is gone.

    The Ford plate/trim piece may be a better option, if I can't find one this weekend, I'll wait and see what they look like. I have to admit though, having a shifter that lights up (like its supposed to) and prevents you from missing the intended range on the 205, would be cool. Not like it's a major deal, but its the little stuff on a large vehicle that makes ya smile.
     
  16. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    Only problem I can forsee is w/ the 208 shifter bolted to the unmoveble body and the Tcase moving around it may have a tendency to try to pop out of gear.

    Personally Id like a shifter thats mounted to the tranny or case itself.

    I was trying to find a way to make a shifter that mounts to the tranny somewhere to go to the 208, since I can see quite a bit of movement in my shifter from the tranny moving around. I even fabbed up a torque arm to limit how much the tranny and case can move and I still see a bunch of movement in the shifter.

    It may be a dead issue since I may be getting a 205 now.
     
  17. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    One other thing to keep in mind is that the 208 shifter is a gated shifter and has the detents built into it where as the 205 shifter is attached to the adapter and the detent is on the shift rods not in the shifter like the 208. I don't think you will be successful in doing this. Let us all know if by some chance you are able to make it work though.
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, the shifter is connected to the t-case with a link that moves both vertically and horizontally, so *theoretically* movement (within reason) won't matter. If the drivetrain torques enough to make that a problem, I'll go with poly trans mounts, I'm picking up poly motor mounts and body mounts Saturday /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    You shouldn't see much movement in the 208 shifter, are your mounts good? More in the next reply. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  19. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    One other thing to keep in mind is that the 208 shifter is a gated shifter and has the detents built into it where as the 205 shifter is attached to the adapter and the detent is on the shift rods not in the shifter like the 208.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You'd think that was the case, but its not.

    The 208 shifter mechanism has NO detents in it. Once you get the trim plate off, you'll see that the trim plate controls the shift pattern (the "S" pattern) and a spring is what forces you to push the shifter to the right to get into N/4Lo.

    The shift handle has a "bolt" through the bottom of it (the pivot) and outside of the "cup" the assembly sits in, which is bolted to the floor, a flat metal plate is welded to the pivot. Since the upper shifter pattern is spring/trim plate controlled, (and "hinged" to allow the side movement) the plate that is underneath the truck which connects to the t-case, only moves front to back, exactly the same as the 205.

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I don't think you will be successful in doing this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Probably not, there is likely no way to get around the leverage issue that is worth the time, compared to finding a better donor boot/trim piece that I can make fit the 208 shifter hole.
     
  20. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    My concern is that the "shifter" itself is mounted to the body, then going by link to the case. So there is 2 different movements. But if you have mounted the "shifter" to the tranny or case it will be moving w/ them, so there is no difference between the 2 major parts.

    I completely obliterated 1 new mount, so when I put the 2nd new one in I fabbed the torque arm. Ill have to take pics of it this week when I pull the tranny out. I cant really explain what or how but it works. Im one of those guys that KNOWS how things work but cant explain it to someone.

    Anyway, the arm did help w/ the shifter moving and made everything more solid feeling, but I still see movement.
     

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