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220 single phase welder w/120 3 prong house plug?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by HD, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. HD

    HD 1/2 ton status

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    My friend gave me a stick welder that he said didn't work. So I took it back to my shop and plugged it up, and it wasn't striking an ark. I started to take it apart to see what was up, and that is when I saw that it needed 220VAC single phase. Does any on know how I need to wire my house to get this? My 220 outlet is 2 phase (4 wires 2 hot at 120 VAC 1 neutral and 1 ground, right?).

    I have two wires going into the house, and here is a picture of my 220 outlet:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    You need a different receptacle. You only need the two hots, and ground for your welder, no neut. The two hot wires coming to your house have 220 volts across them. So, you need a two pole breaker for your panel, and take those two hot's from the breaker and a ground to your receptacle, and you should be good to go. If you have any more ???'s or need specifics, ask up. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    hey im going to need to do the same setup, so there is 4 wires on that plug? how do i know wich 3 to use? its my buddys house so i dont want to mess annything up
     
  4. HD

    HD 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the help! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif It's just weird that it would have a reguler house 120 plug on it. I will try what you said, I just may have to rest the breaker a few times. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  5. beater74

    beater74 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    My 220 outlet is 2 phase (4 wires 2 hot at 120 VAC 1 neutral and 1 ground, right?).


    [/ QUOTE ] NOPE your power is single phase. all residential power is single phase.

    the easyiest way to make your welder work is to buy a plug that matches the outlet.
    you are correct your outlet is 2 hots with a neurtal and a ground but what you need is 2 hots and a neutral the ground is not needed.
    so if you buy a matching plug you just have no ground to hook up.
    but be sure to check your amperage on the welder and make sure thet that outlet will handle it by check your breaker for the amount it will handle amperage.

    but you should be fine most 220 welders a 30 amp machines and most 220 residential outlets are 20-50 amps
     
  6. wasted wages

    wasted wages 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    My 220 outlet is 2 phase

    [/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif2 phase?????






    NOT!!!!!
     
  7. 74beater

    74beater 1/2 ton status

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    If that is a picture of your dryer recp. it is 30 amp 240v
    Go to Home Boys and ask for a dryer pigtail(it's a 4 wire replacement cord with a male plug on one end and ring or fork terminals on the other)
     
  8. HD

    HD 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    My 220 outlet is 2 phase

    [/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif2 phase?????






    NOT!!!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Okay, well in the Navy everything on the ship is 2 phase.
     
  9. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    .... the easyiest way to make your welder work is to buy a plug that matches the outlet.
    you are correct your outlet is 2 hots with a neurtal and a ground but what you need is 2 hots and a neutral the ground is not needed .
    so if you buy a matching plug you just have no ground to hook up.
    but be sure to check your amperage on the welder and make sure thet that outlet will handle it by check your breaker for the amount it will handle amperage.

    but you should be fine most 220 welders a 30 amp machines and most 220 residential outlets are 20-50 amps

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dude, I hope you meant to say that the neutral is not needed. It's a BAD idea not to ground anything electrical, especially a welder. That's your safety net. Anyway, like someone said, the easiest thing to do would be to buy a dryer pigtail at home depot. Then, swap that to your machine, just don't hook up the white wire. If you change out the receptacle, the groun ALWAYS lands on the green screw.
     
  10. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    surpip. See that picture of the receptacle in the first post. The hots are on either side, the neutral is on the bottom and the ground on top. If you are going to be putting in the correct receptacle for your buddy, just hook the hots in the box to their two terminals, and put the ground under the green screw. Cap off the white (neutral) and tuck it back into the box. Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Dude, I hope you meant to say that the neutral is not needed. It's a BAD idea not to ground anything electrical, especially a welder. That's your safety net. Anyway, like someone said, the easiest thing to do would be to buy a dryer pigtail at home depot. Then, swap that to your machine, just don't hook up the white wire. If you change out the receptacle, the groun ALWAYS lands on the green screw.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh....glad you're not wiring anything in my house.

    Ground is your safety net, like you said. That means that current should flow from the hots, through the load, and to the neutral. Whether the machine is grounded or not is a moot point, the main point I am making here is that having current flow to ground is unacceptable unless there is a wiring emergency.

    220 is two hots + a neutral

    Although I do not have a lot of experience with 220, I do know that having current flow down the ground is an unacceptable (and in most places, illegal) way of wiring things.

    Does it work? Yep. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  12. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Re: 220 single phase welder w/120 3 prong house plug? *DELETED*

    Post deleted by HarryH3
     
  13. Xtreme Off-Road

    Xtreme Off-Road Registered Member

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    Most welders do not use the neutral. They use the 2 hot and ground. The neutral is only required if the appliance/equipment needs 120V. If you look at most mig, tig or buzz box plugs, they look like a big version of your standard wall plug. The big difference is that the 2 flat blades are hot and as in all plugs the "U" shaped one is ground.
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The point is that the case of the welder should be connected to ground. If one of the hot wires should touch the case, and the case is not grounded back through the ground connector, then the first person that touches the case while also touching anything that is grounded will complete the circuit. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

    If the case IS grounded and a hot wire touches it, then the circuit breaker back at the panel (or the GFI breaker, if it's set up with one) should blow rather than shocking the pi$$ out of the operator. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree with you 100%. The case should be grounded.

    However....

    I have nearly 2,000 pages of electrical code here in my dad's book, and I have NEVER heard of wiring something to have current flowing down the ground line all the time and not using the neutral. That is electrially unacceptable in my opinion.
     
  15. Bruiser

    Bruiser 1/2 ton status

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    Actually you are partial correct, but some fans use 120 in welders so the nuetral is need, just like in your stove, it is 220 but uses 120 for the lights and timers. The correct way to do this is if you have a 4 wire receptacle to put in a 4 wire plug and remove the grounding strap that will between your nuetral and ground where the plug connects. That is the difference between a 3 wire and a 4 wire, is a little strap that jumpers the nuetral to your ground. If you do not remove this it creates a parallel circuit and can cause everything in your house that is grounded to have current on it. If you are not comfortable with this contact your local Electrician or send me a private message and will try to explain better and find you some pictures.

    2nd Year Electrical Apprectice

    Another note if you have a 4 prong receptacle as you do it is against the National Electrical Code(NEC) to change it to a 3 wire receptacle, you must change the cord on the equipment to a 4 wire cord.
     
  16. Xtreme Off-Road

    Xtreme Off-Road Registered Member

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    The Welder does not flow any current down the ground. Ground is only connected to the steel body. The welder gets its power from the 2 hot leads. Each lead is 120V to neutral, but they are 180 degrees out of phase from each other. So if you measure from one hot to the other you will see 240V. The neutral is not needed and no current will flow to the ground.
     
  17. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    you are correct your outlet is 2 hots with a neurtal and a ground but what you need is 2 hots and a neutral the ground is not needed.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ground is ALWAYS needed
     
  18. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    220 is two hots + a neutral

    [/ QUOTE ]

    nope
    220 is just 2 hots
    the Neutral is needed only if you want to run a 110/120 whatever in the same machine, like a fan or timer as was mentioned above
    if the device is entirely 220 no Neutral is needed and the ground is merely to give a 'short' a path other then you for safety
     
  19. Bruiser

    Bruiser 1/2 ton status

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    It is true you may not need it but it is still hooked up, the 3 wires in a 3 prong is 2 hots and a nuetral. The ground is jumpered to the nuetral where the cord connects to the machine. Older homes did not have a groundingsystem hence, only a 3 wire system. There was no ground.
     
  20. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    ground - Neutral gets fuzzy as they do end up in the same place

    but I have never seen a 220 device that had a 3 prong and split into 120
    3 prong to my knowledge is a straight 220 appliance with no Neutral
    WTF do I know, I am scared of 'tricity and fire and sharp things
     

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