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32 spline 465 into 205 (not necessarily the common question)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dyeager535, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Just wondering if it can be done...

    32 spline long output 465 into a 205. Could this be done using the stock 465/205 adapter (to get the length right) and having a part (or parts) made for the 205 to accept the male 32 spline 465 output?

    I know you can do it by using TH400/205 parts, but would it be any more cost effective (or possible) to do what I suggest?

    I'd love to eliminate the coupler. In my case it's not for the added strength, but to eliminate as much slop as possible. (and the fact I've got a good 32 spline 465 sitting in my garage) I know there are already some available ways to do this (TH400/205 parts being most common) but the machining of the 205 is an added step that would be nice to avoid if possible.

    Never had these setups side by side, so not sure what physical limitations there might be with my idea, but I'm sure someone here can comment. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    It very well may be that the 400/205 parts swap is the only way to go, and thats the reason it's done.
     
  2. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    TARussell and I discussed this a while back but never mocked up the assembly.

    It looks like if you had a pre-85 205 you could use a 32 spline 4spd if you used the pre-85 adapter and (short) input gear. The tailshaft is going to be very close, you might have to cut a 1/2" off of it.

    As for the machining of the 205, you don't have to if you don't mind using a different bearing. I have 2 friends that have converted 10 spline 205's without boring the case, they went to a local bearing supplier and found one that had the right inner (TH400 input gear) & outer (4 spd bearing) diameters and the snap ring groove. Both set ups a many years old (one with severe abuse) and neither has had any problems.
     
  3. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    go buy a 465/205 setup from the 80s
    they have exactly what you are asking for stock
    with the round adapter
     
  4. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    As for the machining of the 205, you don't have to if you don't mind using a different bearing. I have 2 friends that have converted 10 spline 205's without boring the case, they went to a local bearing supplier and found one that had the right inner (TH400 input gear) & outer (4 spd bearing) diameters and the snap ring groove. Both set ups a many years old (one with severe abuse) and neither has had any problems.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    So, if I got this right:

    Use the "original" 465/205 adapter, (the "thick" one from the 70's for instance) acquire which piece of the 400/205 setup, (the input gear?) and then locally procure the right bearing? Perhaps having to trim off 1/2" of the 465 output shaft.

    ORD offers the pieces to do the 32 spline swap for $200, is it more cost effective to buy the 32 spline 205 "input" and do the rest yourself, or is the 205 input alone quite pricey? (if anyone knows)
     
  5. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So, if I got this right:

    Use the "original" 465/205 adapter, (the "thick" one from the 70's for instance) acquire which piece of the 400/205 setup, (the input gear?) and then locally procure the right bearing? Perhaps having to trim off 1/2" of the 465 output shaft.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You got it, use the early figure "8" adapter, the short style (pre-85) input gear and a local bearing. Like I said though we never actually bolted the assembly together but it really looks like it would work with the possible exception of the tranny tailshaft length.

    I guess the one thing that we never really researched was if there is more than one 32 spline tailshaft used (varying lengths). The shaft we were playing with was from an 81 K10 with a 465/208.

    I've been lucky and haven't had to buy the individual parts so I don't know about the pricing.
     
  6. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    the short style (pre-85) input gear and a local bearing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think I'm lost now. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Whats a "short style" input gear...this IS a "female" 205 input gear, that is splined to accept the 32 spline tranny output, correct? I wasn't aware there was a pre/post '85 205 input setup. Having never seen one, I'm only imagining what you are saying.

    I've got the long output 465, and the "figure 8" 205 adapter in the garage, guess I could hold the adapter up against it, and see what kind of "protrusion" there is with that setup. Any chance you have approx. measurements of how much shaft needs to be sticking out to work?
     
  7. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Sorry, I get excited and type in shorthand sometimes. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Go to the ORD site and look at the top of the tech page (good comparison pic). You will see the 2 different female 32 spline input gears. The difference is the year model of the case (pre-85 figure "8" adapter /post-85 round adapter). You will need the short style which fits the pre-85 TH400 applications.

    I don't have any measurements for the tailshaft but I do have both styles of the 205's so I can give you measurements for the stick out of the input gear if you need it.

    If you still have to buy the 205 then MJ had an excellent point, all 205's from 85 on have the input configuration you need but you'll need the round adapter to go with it.
     
  8. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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  9. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    If you have the 32 spline 465, just go find an '85-'91 205 and if you find one that was mated to a 400 or 4L80E, let me know and I will sell you an adaptor that was originally a 32 spline 465/205 combo. Its that simple. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    go buy a 465/205 setup from the 80s
    they have exactly what you are asking for stock


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Except the slip yoke. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Actually half a dozen one way, 6 the other I guess...change input or change output.

    I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for a later 205 that was behind a 465, but from my experience, these are few and far between. (Seen exactly 1 K30 the last few years)

    Of course, already have the 465's (both 10 and 32 spline versions), and a 10 spline 205 isn't hard to come by...but you are right, the later 205 is the way to go, if I could get one for $200 or a bit more, it would still be worth it.
     
  11. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    If you find a truck that has a 3 u-joint rear shaft ( one with a carrier bearing ) it will be a bolt on rear yoke instead of a slip yoke like most of the regular cab K-30's built in the 1980's .Keep a look out for a round pattern case that has a bolt on yoke and get that adapter and you are all set .
    John ( NEVERENUF ) and I stopped trying to make his figure eight pattern 32 spline 205 case and 32 spline 465 work when we figured out that GM went to this in 1985 for the 465/205 combo. It was just much easier to pick up a used 32 spline set up since it was already offered.
    Tom
     
  12. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If you find a truck that has a 3 u-joint rear shaft ( one with a carrier bearing ) it will be a bolt on rear yoke instead of a slip yoke like most of the regular cab K-30's built in the 1980's


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not sure what other GM products the 205 was installed in in 1985/86, but according to my parts manual, ALL (whopping two variants) 205's those years were slip yokes.

    I guess it's over to the "parts wanted" board to ask for local stuff. I'd really rather get just the parts, as I don't need *4* spare 465's, and it always seems the tranny/t-case are sold as a set. It's not like I didn't pay for each of these. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Of course I *could* look the adapter up in my parts manual, and see what outrageous price GM wants. I think the later 205 case is disco'ed.
     
  13. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Its a very simple search for the correct 205.

    Call any yards or places that sell used t-cases and ask for a gear drive 205 out of an '85 to '91 one ton 4x4 that was behind the 465 tranny.

    This will net you the adaptor and the correct 205 so it will mate right into your 32 spline 465. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Now if you should find a 205 out of any '85 to '91 one ton, and it was behind an automatic tranny instead, LET ME KNOW.....I HAVE THE ADAPTOR THAT WILL WORK. Its that simple: swap adaptors and you are set. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    I think that the case is discontinued from GM parts. I tried to get a round pattern case at one time but I was to late - the price was not that bad - something like $800.00 or so , it's a lot of money but for a "NEW" 205 I was thinking about it since it would have been the round pattern case and it was a bolt on yoke.
    As far as the slip v/s bolt on yoke most of the manuals that I have seen don't show pictures of the bolt on yoke or it shows a small caption of the yoke/seal retainer/seal/rubber star gasket/ and nut - but it is not easy to see in the exploded view.
    If I am not mistaken John ( NEVERENUF ) has a spare 1986 case that matches his 1991 case and both have bolt on yokes and I have got a few 1983 & 1984 cases w/ rear yokes - but it would not surprise me if GM dropped the option for a year or two.
    If you do decide to mate up a 32 spline 465 to a converted figure eight pattern 32 spline 205 with a common dual figure eight adapter it seems like it would work if you cut the tranny shaft down just a little . There seems to be a fair amount of spline length so I would not think that strength would be an issue .I never actually mocked mine up so I don't know for sure if everything would work but it looks like it is do-able .The one thing that I was concerned about was that you could not use the seals in the adapter and that the gear oil might pump it self into the tranny or case causing one to be over filled and one to be under filled. That is why I stopped playing with the idea and just decided to get a factory set up if I needed one .
    Good luck in your search and don't trust the manuals completely - as great as they are, they do ommitt some details . HTH , Tom
     
  15. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I forgot to add some more of my 2 cents worth, if thats worth much at all. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    In all my searches and studies, I have found the majority of the 1 ton trucks utilizing the 205 t-case in the crew cabs were the fixed yoke rather than the slip yoke as in the regular cabbed trucks. This holds true for most, if not all, the crew cabs from '80 on up to '91.

    So if Dorian is trying to locate that rare 32 spline fixed yoke t-case, he should be asking the salvage yards for one out of a crew cab. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  16. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with the above about the fixed yoke applications. The Crew Cabs came with a three u-joint rear shaft as did most, if not all,Cab Chassis trucks . As far as I can tell the only K-30's that came with a slip yoke from 1980 to 1991 were the Regular Cab trucks that had a two u-joint rear shaft.
    I just thought that including Cab Chassis trucks in your search might help Ya find what you are looking for .
    Good luck , Tom
     
  17. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Yes, guess I can call around to places.

    My inherent cheapness (coupled with typical lack of throwaway money) has kept me from calling them.

    When I found out they get $4-500 for a front 10 bolt (any ratio) I pretty much never bothered asking for drivetrain components again.

    But, for the right pieces, ya gotta pay.
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Its a very simple search for the correct 205

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Your optimism is humorous. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Best "deal" so far is $800 for the tranny/t-case from an '84.

    Worst, and funniest, is $600 for the 465 with an '85+ adapter.

    No ones got a post '85 t-case.

    Not what I was thinking price wise when I'm used to spending $100 for a tranny or t-case, at most. Just going to have to keep my eyes open I guess.
     
  19. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    My buddy got a '91 np205 (VSS type) with fixed yoke and the SM465 adapter for $500 CDN.

    You might be able to score a cheap 32-spline SM465 from an 88-90 "new" style truck (before they used the NV4500). They use an aluminum tower that is usually broken. Then swap on an iron tower and you're back in business /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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