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4 shocks rear for help with shackle flip

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Grim-Reaper, Dec 4, 2001.

  1. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well here is my problem. I AM WAY TO SOFT IN THE REAR SUSPENSION! I tow regularly with my truck and with as soft as my rear suspension is I'm having problems. As many of you recall I came real close to jack knifing and flipping my truck and trailer in October. There were several things that contributed to my near accident. Some is the trailer and I'm relocating the axle back 6 inches to cure it's issues. The rest is the truck.
    I thought about adding a leaf or two to get the spring rate up. Unfortunatly that will hurt my flex and change my ride hight. While I'm a bit tail low with the hard top I plan to go to a soft top soon so loosing the 225lb will get me about right.
    What happens is I can get the truck bouncing enough that the shocks can't deal with it. When you do a Shackle flip you make the spring react differently and it loose the variable rate effect that the conventional Tension shackle design creates. I don't think adding a leaf is going to help in all situations.
    I'm running a set of Gabrials right now and not having a problem with travel in the conventional location. I have been on whootie doos where the truck got bouncing BAD to the point people following me made comments Such as "do you not have any rear shocks?". It's like running no shocks at all.
    What I think I am going to try is to add a second set of Shocks in the cross over configuration. This will double my available shock power. Having them in this configuration will help with sway as well. I think I'll use 9000's so I can get them stiff for the street when I trailer but back them off for the trail and washboard roads. I have resisted going to a straight crossover because the shocks in the stock location help control axle wrap.
    What do you all think? Anybody else experiance any problems like this? What do you think of my solution Idea?


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  2. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    What about running a shock with a resivior? Somehting like a KIng, Sway-a-way or a Bilstein? The resi will help cool the shock fluid and in turn the shock will be able to control the bouncing better.

    Or another thought would be make up some quick disconnects for your rear shocks.. Run the Gabs for normal driving and towing and get a set of shocks with the helper springs on them.. I have heard they help out alot.

    Mike

    <font color=green>"1024x768x256... Sounds like one mean woman."</font color=green>

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  3. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    You might try going with one set of 9000's in the rear and see how those do. I don't know if the shocks are different for a dual set up. If they are the same, then you could always just add another set.

    Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear![​IMG]

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  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'd try a set of 9000's in the stock location first...I've heard the higher settings are pretty stiff. Puting the 9000's in the stock location is where they'll help you the most...then if you feel you need more damping do a relocation bracket with your current shocks. With the 9000's tilted inboard at the top you are reducing their ability to damp.

    Rene

    <font color=green>Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!</font color=green>
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  5. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Grim...

    I've experimented with shock mounting quite a bit. Trying to allow for a lot of flex, but still keep some decent street manners is tough. After several attempts, I chose to go with a setup that favored hwy control at the loss of a little wheel travel.

    So, I think the ideal shock setup would be to have 4 ea RS9000 shocks on the rear axle. 2 should be mounted like I have on my rear, and two should be mounted on top, angling in (like Frizzlefry or Steve Frisbee's shock kit). All should be adjustable and the outer ones (like on my truck) should be "push-pinned" so that they could be removed easily.

    How are my shocks mounted?.. They both mount to the back of the axle and angle rearward (like the stock one that angles back.... forget which one it is..). I used the F-250 brackets that everyone is using for the front, so I could get the top mount right up against the flooboard. I'll send you pics if you like....

    Anyway, this would accomplish it all. With 4 9000's on stiff - you could tow your trailer and haul the family, during light wheelin' - you could just loosen up all the shocks for a smooth ride, and for max articulation - you could jump out and remove the outers faster than someone could disconnect a swaybar.

    Oh, and ditch the "one forward and one back" thing that GM intended us to have. I really believe that it becomes really ineffective with the modified axle arc after the flip.

    Marv
     
  6. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

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    Well I don't have a flip, just 4" lift springs, but I do have the 9012's on the back and can agree with Rene that on setting #4 or 5 they are STIFF. You might try that first, then go from there.

    <font color=blue>'79 ONE TON TPI K5 - See it at---&gt;<a target="_blank" href=http://www.blazzinor.rockcrawler.com>www.blazzinor.rockcrawler.com</a>
     
  7. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Air shocks and Coil shocks are not a good Idea on these trucks. These trucks are already prone to tearing the shock mounts loose from the frame. I don't need that hassle for sure. That's why I am hesitant to even going with a real stiff shock in the stock location. Plus the higher the valving the hotter the shock will run and the more prone it is to fail or fade.

    Women dig dents and flat paint!
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  8. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    THANKS MARV!
    Glad to find somebody that has done some experimenting with the same issue I'm having. I think I'll start making a new crossmember this week. See if I'm going to have to reroute my exhaust. That's not a big deal. I got a blown muffler anyway. If it cures the problems I'm having and makes the truck more safe with that trailer behind it this will be well spent money.Didn't think about making the outers a quick release. That I could do.
    Thanks.

    Women dig dents and flat paint!
    coloradok5.com/gallery/Grim
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  9. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    i would like pics to see what you did. sounds like the best of all worlds...

    -zakk

    '77 1-Ton K5

    [​IMG] CK5's MOAB 2002 OR BUST!! [​IMG]
     
  10. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    Thats true, I forgot about hte weak mounts! i just help a friend change a drivers side mount Saturday on his K5...

    Mike

    <font color=green>"1024x768x256... Sounds like one mean woman."</font color=green>

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  11. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    I had blocks and now the flip. I have bad axle wrap either way. My shocks are in the factory location also. I am thinking about tring a set of kicker shocks mounted along the top of the spring but I am not sure how much that will affect flex. I am also planning to do the crossover shock set-up and have been thinking that mounting a set both in front and in the back of the axle.

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  12. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    One of the best designs I have seen for an anti wrap device is a arm welded close to the pumpkin. The other end has a shackle on it. It being close to the pumpkin is where the axle will get the least amount of travel.The shackle allows the the axle to move foward and back when the spring compresses and extends but stops the rotation.

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  13. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    That sounds like a good idea. What wouly you think about something like that mounted to the pinion snout somehow?

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  14. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    And BTW axle wrap is what broke my t case out put housing.[​IMG] That was with the blocks in and the driveshaft was not in far enough so it did not have enough spline engaged which allowed it to flex just enough to brake.

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  15. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Grim, do they not make some sort of overload spring set up that would be relatively easy to remove? I have never towed with my truck, but when its loaded down in the back with camping gear, spare parts, tools and the kids, it has some bad bounce manners too. This post is very informative and I am following it with interest!


    <font color=blue>Thumper
    85 Fullsize Jimmy
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    <font color=red>Aint Skeered!! </font color=red>
     
  16. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well closer to the center the better. Need to leave some room around the drive shaft. Rear axles when flexed will move right or left quite a bit more than you would think. The other problem is welding to the cast Iron. It's easy to weld to the tubes. Welding to housing isn't. You got to be real carefull off the angles. and mounting point. I gues the ideal points would be as long as the the distance is to the front spring eye.

    Women dig dents and flat paint!
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  17. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well most (including what comes on the back of our trucks) leaf springs have a Overload. It's the Big heavy spring on the bottom. at normal ride hight it doesn't do anything. You load it down and the springs above it sit down on it. My truck has 2 [​IMG]. The first one is stock and the second one is upside down. Got me an extra 3/4 of an inch and under normal compression it does not interfere with travel.
    The problem Your having is as weight increases to keep it level you need to increase the spring rate. Well that's bad for flex if your empty.
    Air shocks sound Ideal. but in the stock location we have a problem with these trucks ripping the frame out. Possible put the cross over with a second set of air shocks might be the ticket. I'm just trying to avoid increasing my spring rate but it might be the way to go about it.
    What I want is to increase shock control. 2 sets of shocks I think will resolve my problem. My weight stays pretty consitant so I have adjusted my springs by adding that extra over load as a spacer.

    Women dig dents and flat paint!
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  18. rusty79

    rusty79 1/2 ton status

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    i was gonna say overload springs but thumper beat me to it they arent that hard to remove or install once the initiall install is done and you have them lined up right just loosen and slide the overload spring out we have that on our old T-bird it suffers from saggy butt too but it out ways my blazer by about 1000 lbs can barely tell a difference in ride quality takes away some of that floating feeling though
     
  19. fad2blk99

    fad2blk99 1/2 ton status

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    I didn't read through all your replies, so I apologize if this is repetitive.
    It sounds like you need a set of helper springs or air bags. I don't think all the shocks in the world will help the added load without some help from heavier springs. 4Wheel &amp; Off-road (January 2002 issue, pg. 91) has an article you might want to check out. Its called "Air Supremacy." It details the installation of an air bag set up on a brand new 6 inch lifted Suburban. The system is completely adjustable. This issue is on news stands now.

    <font color=black> -Tommy
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  20. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    Wrt the axle wrap - in one of my 4W&amp;OR issues I'm sure I saw a replacement diff cover with a heim joint above the housing to mount a bar to control wrap
     

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