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4 Wheelparts - Bait & Switch

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by mudpuppy1, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. mudpuppy1

    mudpuppy1 Newbie

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    I ordered five mounted and balanced sets of 31” X 10.5” BF Goodrich Mud Terrain (M/T) KM tires on 15" AR-23 American Racing wheels. Payment was by credit card over the telephone and all other additional information was taken by the representative to insure the delivery of the merchandise. He even read back my order to me and it was correct. I asked what proof would exist of the actual order that I placed. He said that there were recordings of the conversations of phone orders to deal with these types of situations and that the recording would be on the PC.

    The shipment arrived and when I got home and unloaded the tires I realized that I had been given All Terrain T/As instead of Mud Terrain T/As. I immediately contacted the customer service center with my order number and spoke to the representative. He simply told me that the order said All-Terrain T/As and that I was mistaken. I stated that the situation was totally unacceptable and I demanded the mistake be corrected. He then stated that there was a price difference between the M/Ts and the A/Ts that I would have to pay that amounted to $23.00/tire. Assuming an honest mistake had been made, I stated that I was willing to pay the difference to get the tires I wanted (and had ordered). It’s not my desire to cheat anyone out of anything. If there was an honest mistake made (by 4wheelparts), and I had not paid the proper amount, I was willing to make-up the difference. I was however (and still am not) willing to incur any shipping related costs as the shipping of the errant order is absolutely not my responsibility.

    He insisted that I was completely in error and that I would be at least partially responsible for shipping costs. I explained that it was 4wheelparts that was in error and that I was not willing to pay for any shipping. Then he accused me of “deciding I didn’t like the A/Ts when I got them home” and further suggested that I was trying to cheat the company. I explained that I had ordered correctly and that his refusal to absorb the shipping costs suggested strongly that the wrong tires had been sent either on purpose (to reduce costs as the M/Ts are a more expensive tire) or simply with a disregard for the accuracy of the order since few people would be willing to absorb the shipping costs to make the exchange. Simply put, the old Bait-and-Switch. I informed him that that type of activity amounts to fraud and I simply would not accept being a victim of it.

    A heated argument ensued. At one point I asked to speak to his supervisor, and was told “this is as high as you’re going to go”. I insisted that the recording of my order be produced as evidence of who was actually in the wrong. I further stated that if a recording of my placement of the order incorrectly could be played for me, I would immediately apologize and accept my mistake. He told me that only his supervisor was authorized to listen to the recording. I was put on hold for about 4 minutes after which, he came back on the phone and told me that his supervisor had listened to the recording and that I had ordered All-Terrains, but that he was still willing to absorb some of the shipping costs. I was shocked. I asked why he’d be willing to absorb any shipping costs if I was clearly in the wrong, and told him that if he played the recording for me, as proof of an errant order, or emailed me the sound file, 4wheelparts wouldn’t have to absorb anything.

    He then told me that 4wheelparts wouldn’t provide the recording without a court order. Again, I was shocked. I restated that if the recording said what he had just told me it did, I would apologize and the issue would be closed. He reiterated the need for a court order. I told him that since a court order was required, I’d have to contact an attorney. He got very upset and told me that “if I mentioned the word lawyer one more time, he was going to hang up.” I further stated, that his refusal to provide the recording that would definitively put the matter to rest, was a guarantee that either there was no recording, or that it had confirmed that I placed the order correctly. In either case, it was clear that we were no longer dealing with a simple mistake, but obvious dishonesty and falsehoods. I explained that I was absolutely not going to pay for any of the shipping charges, nor was I going to accept the errant merchandise. I told him that if I was forced to contact an attorney regarding the matter, that, given his behavior, it would be with allegations of fraud. Upon hearing more mention of lawyers, he said good-bye and hung up.

    And so here I am. I have 5 incorrect tires, on 5 wheels, all of which I was charged for well before I had any chance to refuse delivery. I have no interim confirmations of the order and a 4wheelparts simply insists that I ordered incorrectly.

    As far as stopping payment, it was taken before shipment. They are already paid for. I wrote Mr. Adler ( The president of 4wheelparts) a 2 page email 2 days ago and have not heard from him. The matter is closed as far as the representatives are concerned. They will NOT let me hear the recording.

    Unfortunately, in this case, if I do not hear from Mr. Adler the pursuit will likely have to go beyond that provided by a private attorney, and will likely involve filing additional complaints/claims.
     
  2. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    make life easier on yourself. dispute the payment to your credit card, put the tires in the garage or other safe and reasonable storage place untill the deal is finished. also, call and ask for the supervisor before you even mention who you are and what you want.
    4wheel parts has good prices for the most part. but thier customer service is worthless.
    in the end i hope all pans out well.
    Grant
     
  3. unick

    unick 1/2 ton status

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    that sux man. HOpe u get ur money back
     
  4. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    1. Welcome to CK5.

    2. Protest the charges with your credit card company and refuse to pay for the merchandise. Tell them that you attempted to return it but that they won't pay the return shipping. You'll probably end up with 5 free tires and wheels. If not, they'll change their mind and allow you to return them.

    Either way, I say you just refuse to pay the credit card by going through the process. They will have no problem crediting your account.
     
  5. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yet another reason why you never ever ever get something from 4wpw unless you are at one of their retail locations.

    j
     
  6. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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    Like was mentioned,dispute the credit card charge.
    This gets the credit card co. involved.If 4WP's don't reply to the credit card co. in a certain time peroid the charge will automatically be reversed and your card will be credited.
    Good luck man.
     
  7. 88jimmy4x4

    88jimmy4x4 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    yet another reason why you never ever ever get something from 4wpw unless you are at one of their retail locations.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree 100%. I would never order anything from 4wp over the phone, especially tires. What if a tire is out-of-round? then what would you do?

    Disputing the charges with your CC company wont do any good at all. 4WP's has allready been paid by the CC company. Disputing will only make the CC company absorb the charges.
     
  8. tomseviltwin

    tomseviltwin 1/2 ton status

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    Who delivered these tires? Were they a "driver release" delivery (no sig) from UPS? If so call 1-800-pickups and tell them you want to refuse delivery and they will pick them up and return them. Then they are not in your possession and you will have a stronger case with the credit card.
     
  9. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Disputing the charges with your CC company wont do any good at all. 4WP's has allready been paid by the CC company. Disputing will only make the CC company absorb the charges.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Sorry, but you've been misinformed. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Credit card companies don't have to worry about "getting their money" from retailers. If the amount in question is found to be an incorrect charge, then they will just deduct the amount from a future payment to that retailer. Visa, Mastercard, etc. have a LOT of power in the retail world. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    To dispute a charge, first CALL the credit card company and find out the correct process to follow. Most will require a request in writing. Then WRITE a clear, concise letter to them, explaining the situation in noninflammatory language. Just remain calm and stick to the facts.
     
  10. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Oh yeah, it doesn't require a court order for you to hear a recording of a conversation that you were a party to. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif The guy is making $h!t up on the fly. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  11. yeild2me

    yeild2me 1/2 ton status

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    No matter what happens, keep us posted on this.

    Good luck getting it straightened out.

    rob
     
  12. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    Dispute with credit card and all that and if need be contact a lawyer and see this sucker all the way through. It may be a little expensive at first but you could probably get them to pay your attorney's fees. This is one place where an individual can make a difference. These super stores need to know that they cannot dump on somebody simply because they have a million more customers. If I were you I would go all the way!!!! But hey that is just what I would do.

    Oh yeah, Welcome to CK5 /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. tecton

    tecton 1/2 ton status

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    i agree dispute the charge

    have a lawyer write them a letter requesting action...itll let them know your serious and not going to take their crap.
     
  14. Polaris

    Polaris 1/2 ton status

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    Yikes /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif. I was just going to order a winch from them this weekend, for hubby's Christmas present. I am thinking I may be better off on eBay - there is a seller with a 100% positive feedback rating. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  15. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You'll probably end up with 5 free tires and wheels. If not, they'll change their mind and allow you to return them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I placed an order with a computer company for 90% of the parts I needed to build a machine. 3weeks later one small box about the side of a distributor caps shows up. I rip it open and its the processor. So I call, get no answer wait on hold for 20 minutes. Tried calling back the next day... same deal no answer. Sent 3 emails over 2 weeks, no answers. I went to the bank (I used my debit card), told them what happened and that the company would not respond and that I only received one item for about 10% of my order price. 1 week later the total amount was back in my account, said they called and got no answer so they appoved my refund request /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
    I still had to reorder all my stuff and it took another month to get my computer built so the free processor was a bonus. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  16. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Who delivered these tires? Were they a "driver release" delivery (no sig) from UPS? If so call 1-800-pickups and tell them you want to refuse delivery and they will pick them up and return them. Then they are not in your possession and you will have a stronger case with the credit card.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    YEAH /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif The delivery guys out here know me pretty well (seems I order alot of stuff), since its a pretty good neighborhood they are trusting and leave stuff for me without signing. The first time it got me mad was (a little back gorund info, we live on a corner so people like to deliver to the side door which is a garage door... not connected to the house), anyhow one of the guys left a box under the car just outside the door. It rained for two days, I called the company asked where my item was and when it was shipped. They ran the tracking number and said it had already been dropped off two days ago. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    So I got outside (in the rain mind you) and check in front of the house... not there.... walk around the side of the house which is connected by a sidewalk... look around dont see it... start walking back around to the front door and there it is.... stuffed under the back side of the car... soaking wet from the past two days of rain /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif So I pick the box up and take it inside to the kitchen floor and cut tape off the box, LUCKLY my $600 digital surround sound receiver was skrink wrapped and bagged inside the box. its also had solid foam packing on to and bottom so the plastic inside was not even wet. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    TALK ABOUT A B!TCH FEST! I called the place to conferm I got it and it did work, told them what happened, then I called and told the whole story minus the it still works part to the UPS guy he transfered me to the manager I told him and he offered to replace it or cut me a check... I told him at that point he was lucky and it still worked and was wrapped really well inside that that would not be nessecary 'THIS TIME'. So now all the packages get put on the table out front, under the covered porch, by the front door /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Even 'must be sign for' packages gets left there /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif Oh well... one day I will use the I didn't sign for it excuse /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  17. kombi59

    kombi59 1/2 ton status

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    Man A couple of us in yuma just went throught some Sh*t with them also. we took 3 trucks to have new gears and lockers put in, a 02 tacoma my 84 k5 and a 03 f250. all parts ordered said would be there when the trucks were dropped off Tuesday and supposed to be ready on thursday. All went well with the 84 K5, the Tacoma went allright until we drove the truck with the lockers engauged did not work? hmm they told us they drove it and all was fine? hmm so we made another trip to phoenix were they fixed that problem, they had the axle out and lost some needle bearings and said the parts was no good and needed to be replaced. went to toyota and tried to get the part under warranty well 350.00 later I had the new part at 4wheel parts. Toyota wanted to see the parts so they could justify the warranty, they inspected the part and said that the needle bearings were missing and nothing was wrong with the part, mean while no rides were offered or any assistance to get this resolved just some young "cool" counter help scratching there heads.finally have the truck back in service and still trying to get toyota to pay for the part. Good luck dude, I guess the nicest looking shops arent always the best.
     
  18. Derf00

    Derf00 1/2 ton status

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    Beware, e-bay offers no assurances that the same thing wouldn't happen by using them.
     
  19. Polaris

    Polaris 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Beware, e-bay offers no assurances that the same thing wouldn't happen by using them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    While that may be true, I have a feeling that 4 Wheel Parts would not have a 100% positive feedback rating if they sold on eBay.
     
  20. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    One thing to keep in mind for the future, it is illegal to tape record a phone conversation without telling someone you are doing it unless two requirements are met. One, you are a law enforcement officer conducting an official investigation, or two, you inform the person that the conversation is or could be recorded. This is why when you get a customer service rep on the phone, many times it is preceded by a recording saying that you might be recorded as a warning. Anyone can do this. If you call a company to place an order, you can preface your order by telling them that for quality assurance, the conversation/order will be recorded. Then either hold up a digital or tape recorder to the phone, or if you want to be a little more high tech, get one that plugs onto the receiver. Then make your order. If there is a later dispute, you are legal, and you have the recording to back up your claims.

    I would also consider filing a claim with the Better Business Bureau, the local Chamber of Commerce (or the C of C in their area), and any other organization that they do business with. Many times newspapers have a recurring article like "Action Line" where you write in your tale of woe and they go to bat for you. Some TV stations have the same. Bad press goes a long way towards making a company make things right....
     

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