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427 cranck in 454 block

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Blaze74, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. Blaze74

    Blaze74 Registered Member

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    Hi there ..
    Got a 427 rotating assembly out of TD block. I am planning on using it on 454 SD block . Which damper should I use, if I am gonna replace the truck pistons w/454 ones .

    HELP please ..

    Thanks every one /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  2. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    The 454 and 427 use the same pistons if memory serves me correctly.
     
  3. jwduke

    jwduke 1/2 ton status

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    I think, the 427, is a 454 block, with a 396 crank.
     
  4. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Bore is the same ,stroke is not, check out Mortec.com for more info.......454 is external balance. I am not sure about the 427
     
  5. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I think, the 427, is a 454 block, with a 396 crank.

    [/ QUOTE ]Thats what I have been told too.
     
  6. ben427

    ben427 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 427 crank in 454 block

    If you use the crank, rods, and pistons for a tall deck 427, and you need to use the 427 damper and flywheel. 427 is an internally balanced engine as is the 396. The 454 is and external balance. The tall deck and short deck engines use the same rods too, just the TD engines have a taller piston.
     
  7. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    366, 396, 402, 427 are all the same crank.

    454 is a crank by itself.

    A 427 is basically any of those crankshafts in a 454 block. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  8. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    454 pistons on 427 rotating assembly will need to use the external balanced 454 harmonic balancer AND flywheel/flexplate.
     
  9. Blaze74

    Blaze74 Registered Member

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    ..Z3PR, jwduke, mudjunkie82, rjfguitar, ben427, thatK30guy & 4X4HIGH ...

    Thanx guys for your replies..

    as far as I know 366, 396 and 427 share the same crank.

    I am using a tall deck stuff, yet gonna replace the pistons ( since tall deck are higher that short decks ) & thats the dilemma !!???

    If I get it right outta what ben427 and 4X4HIGH say. I should use 454 damper & flywheel in my case .

    >>>> since the two engines differ in balancing . Wont it be a mistake to use the 454 damper on 427 crank ( which is internally balanced ) !!????

    Thanx again ..GOD bless /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  10. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    You are correct, you will need to use the flywheel and damper for the crankshaft.

    I was thinking that 427 pistons were different from 454 pistons. I know the bore is the same but seems like I remember the pin position being different, or something like that. I could be wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  11. Longhorn4x4

    Longhorn4x4 Registered Member

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    A 427 tall rotating assembly will not fit into a short
    deck block of any type. The reason is that the tall deck piston is a four ring piston, and the reason for the tall deck. The tall deck piston is too tall to fit into the short deck block. To put it in a short deck block you need new pistons. The 454 pistons won't work, the 454 uses a different (shorter) compression height piston than the 427 due to the difference in stroke.

    The 427 is 4.250" bore stock with a 3.76" stroke, and internally balanced.

    The 454 is 4.250" bore stock with a 4.00" stroke, and is externally balanced.

    A short deck block is 9.800" and a tall deck block is 10.200".

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Good answer! I knew there was something different between short deck 427/454 pistons.
     
  13. Longhorn4x4

    Longhorn4x4 Registered Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ..Z3PR, jwduke, mudjunkie82, rjfguitar, ben427, thatK30guy & 4X4HIGH ...

    Thanx guys for your replies..

    as far as I know 366, 396 and 427 share the same crank.

    I am using a tall deck stuff, yet gonna replace the pistons ( since tall deck are higher that short decks ) & thats the dilemma !!???

    If I get it right outta what ben427 and 4X4HIGH say. I should use 454 damper & flywheel in my case .

    >>>> since the two engines differ in balancing . Wont it be a mistake to use the 454 damper on 427 crank ( which is internally balanced ) !!????

    Thanx again ..GOD bless /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You must use a 427 balancer and flywheel or flexplate with a 427 crank. The 427 is an internally balanced engine. Using the balancer and flywheel or flexplate from a 454 on the 427 will result in a SEVERE vibration, and damage to internal components in short order.
    Good Luck.
     
  14. ben427

    ben427 1/2 ton status

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    I may have sounded confusing, what i meant to say was to use the 427 flywheel and balance with the 427 crank. You have to use them as a matched set. All internal balanced components.
     
  15. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I too confused myself. /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif If you want to use the crank and rods from the TD 427 in a 454 block you will need to use standard deck 427 pistons and also the 427 harmonic balancer AND flywheel/flexplate. Sorry about the confusion.
     
  16. Lonnie

    Lonnie 1/2 ton status

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    Also 396, 427 & 427TD cranks are very different balance wise due to different piston weights. You will need to do substantial engine balancing (machine shop) to make it all work. All 427 cranks are steel. Most 427TD cranks are heat treated & some are even cross drilled. 396 cranks can be cast or steel.

    Hope this helps.

    The early 427 Trucks have an integral iron pulley on the balancer which has wider grooves to match the truck style belts. You will likely have a slippage problem using it with the regular belts/pulleys found on cars & pick-ups
     
  17. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    All 427 cranks are steel.

    [/ QUOTE ] NOT ALL 427 cranks are steel.
     
  18. Lonnie

    Lonnie 1/2 ton status

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    OK.... I'll listen,
    List the year & model of vehicle that had one.

    I'll be glad to listen, but some proof to back-up your findings would be nice.
     
  19. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Well, I have this book at work called AERA (American Engine Rebuilders Association) casting numbers, and if you look up the casting number it will tell you what engine and year it came from. 366, 396, 427 all are the same crank. The LS-6 and LS-7 are both steel cranks for sure but almost all others are cast.
     
  20. thor

    thor 1/2 ton status

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    All of the 366 and 427 TDs used steel cranks, but were not cross drilled. In cars they were less common and usually only in the solid lifter (shp) motors along with rect heads, forged pistons, 7/16" conn rods, etc, these were cross drilled.

    It is easy to tell if you have a steel crank as the parting line in the forging is wide and rough, where a cast crank is thin and almost pointy.

    The truck rods are the same length, and also use a 3/8" bolt, but they are beefier in the cross section where the transition from the journal to I beam starts. shaped like U instead of A if that makes sense.

    I've made a 427 like this, use 427 short deck pistons, a 427 or 396 balancer and ANY internally balanced flywheel or flex plate.

    Big trucks (the doner) work hard for years and years, so I'd recommend having the rods and crank magnafluxed before spending any other money, just my $.02
     

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