Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

460 or what?

Discussion in 'Other Rides' started by 84gmcjimmy, Dec 9, 2004.

  1. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    In another thread MJ mentioned that a stock ford block could be made to 577 (or close to that) cubic inches... what block was that? the 460? I'm not really a ford fan, but I wouldn't mind knowing how/why... thanks!
     
  2. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    I think he was refering to the 429 cobra jet.
     
  3. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    oh okay... by the name, are those rare/special edition? Or are they common?
    Thanks Bobby
     
  4. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Posts:
    2,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg, WA
    429's and 460's are the same blocks. You can take either one and make it into a 500+ cube monster. The Cobra Jet feature mainly was in the heads, and I believe that they may have had steel cranks... but you can damn near drop a Pepsi can in the intake port of a CJ head.
     
  5. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Okay thanks for the info... a PEPSI can? HOLY! thats awesome!
     
  6. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    IIRC a cobra jet block has more nickle in it making it stronger. CJ's are rare and expensive.
     
  7. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    okay thanks.
    more nickle? I understand now.
    Thanks for all the help, guys!
     
  8. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    I think that is what the article said....There was a big ass red '79 ford on the cover of Fourwheeler about a year abo with 44" boggers, rockies, and a animal of a ford BB. I think they mentioned that the CJ engine was richer in nickle making it good for a blower app. because of the higher strength.
     
  9. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Posts:
    5,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    **PLUMBING THE WORLD**
    Just curious, but i was told the 351 could be made into a 429..... mabey the source was incorect....
     
  10. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    Probably, a 351 can be stroked and bored to something near that. I don't know how streetable it would be.
     
  11. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    heres a stupid question, what does it mean when you have a stroked/stroker engine?
     
  12. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Posts:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Lenox, Illinois
    A stroker motor has a longer stroke. It just means the piston travels further up and down, making more cubic inches and usually increasing torque.

    Im pretty sure any FE series ford block can be bored/stroked to massive numbers. My freinds and I used to joke that ford named those motors the FE series because they were "Fuel Eaters":rotfl:
     
  13. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Longer stroke=more cubic inches and torque? okay cool
    LOL, fuel eaters
     
  14. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Posts:
    2,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg, WA

    Well, it is pretty common for people to take the 351W and make it into a 427 Stroker. Not many people stroke the 351M/351C/or the 400M (but they are out there).
    I am going to build either a 331 or a 347 out of the 68 302 that I have to put in the Early Bronco that I just bought. With aftermarket heads a 347 makes about 425 Horse and has a smaller main journal size than a 351W so it is more RPM friendly!

    Most people always talk about STROKING a motor, but it is also pretty common practice in the Chevy world to DESTROKE a motor... Most people do this by taking a 400 block, use spacer main bearings, and put a 350 crank in it making a 377. Loves RPM's and is common around race tracks...
     
  15. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    Basically yes. You gain cubic inches by both a larger bore and a deeper stroke. Example... A 427 BBC and 454BBC share the same bore at 4.25" but the 454 has a slightly larger stroke (4" stroke crank vs. a 3.76" stroke in a 427) THat is why a 454 is a lower revving, torqueyer engine than a 427 that is a higher revving engine. Short stroke/large bore engines rev up very fast and build high HP in a very high power band. That is why a 327 and 427 was used for years in vettes. The torqueyer, lower RPM 350 and 454 are popular in trucks because they are better for moving a lot of weight due to their longer, torque building strokes.
     
  16. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Okay, thanks for all the info! I learned a lot just from that.
    Even though 454's are better in trucks, is it still okay for racing? Or would a 427 like you said, be better?
     
  17. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Posts:
    9,095
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    california
    Depends, I would take a 454 in a mudracing truck because it takes torque to move a lot of weight. Light cars get away with low torque/high HP engines because they don't need a lot of torque to get them moving. Why do you think the little niper cars are powered by 4 cylinders?

    It is hard to explain how torque and HP work and how they are different but here is a shot at it....

    Torque is like momentum. The longer the stroke the more momentum the engine has internally. What that means is when you are pulling a load in a diesel pickup that has a long stroke is very rich in torque and when you come up to a hill and start pulling it you don't lose much if any speed because a large stroke with lots of momentum is hard to slow down. Kind of like a frieght train...so much momentum that it is hard to slow it down. Torque is what keeps you climbing steady up a hill or gets a heavy load moving from a dead stop.

    Horsepower is like a kick in the pants. With a short stroke engine it's momentum internally is "light" and easily sped up and slowed down from the lack of a long travelng piston that gains a lot of momentum and is "heavy". HP does the work when you throw that muscle car down into 2nd out of 3rd and it roars up to 4,500RPM's and accelerates quikly. In a light car with a high HP engine, the car has a good power to weight ratio and the lack of torque is made up by the light weight that is easily accellerated with lots of HP. In a heavy truck it would just bog down from the lack of low end torque.

    Buiding a mud racer includes a delicate balance of torque vs HP and how high of a power band it is made in. You need that torque to turn those heavy swampers in the mud but also lots of HP is needed to accelerate quickly.

    That is the best way I know how to describe it, I'm pooped. :haha:
     
  18. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Okkay, confirm this for me.
    Torque is more needed in rockcrawling, hill climbing, mud bogs, and whatever else. And Horse power is more needed for 1/4 mile cars and muscle cars?
    I think i get it now. Thats why diesels are better for towing, they only have 200 HP, but 500 ft/pounds of torque, like you said for steep hills. (roughly) and a little riced civic is light, but has a bit of horsepower to make it zippy.
     
  19. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Posts:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Lenox, Illinois
    Heres a good read on the subject of HP VS. Torque for you Steve:

    Linky

    Enjoy!
     
  20. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Thanks Joe, I will read that tomorrow. I'm off to bed soon, so it's a little long to read right now. Thanks!!
     

Share This Page