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???? 502 ????

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by Batmanjr, Mar 27, 2001.

  1. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Alright, I don't know how much trouble I'm asking for, but here it goes. I want to put a 502 Ram jet crate motor with 510 lbs of torque in my 69 Blazer. Mounting problems aside, what is the most heavy duty Auto Transmission and Most heavy duty transfer case I can use with this set up. I really want to harness the power of this massive engine. Please be as detailed as possible, Haven't done many t-case swaps.
     
  2. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    If you want the ultimate in strength and reliability for that beast I would suggest a TH 400 with an NP 205. These are the two undisputed kings of strength in their respective duties...
    I wouldn't stop there though, with that kind of torque on tap I'd also swap in a 14 bolt FF with a Detroit and a Dana 60 front. With that drivetrain I think it would take a direct hit with a SCUD missile and still not break. [​IMG]

    Rene

    [​IMG]<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jules.coloradok5.com>http://jules.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  3. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks, I already knew I was going to put in dual Dana 60, Haven't broken it down to what kind of locker though. What kind of options do I have with the 205? Is there anything better at all. I don't want to spend the money on the Ram Jet and waste the rest of my drive Line.
     
  4. RGF

    RGF 1/2 ton status

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    I would suggest a 14bolt FF or D-70 rear with there larger ring gear and axleshafts, My personal choice would be the 14bolt because they are everywhere and a detroit locker is cheap for this axle compared to the Dana detroits. If ground clearance is an issue you could do some shaving, I took around an inch off the bottom of mine plus rounded everything so it would slip over things better!
    RGF
     
  5. extremeblazer

    extremeblazer 1/2 ton status

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    The Turbo 400 NP 205 is the King but if your looking for some overdrive think 4L80E. This tranny is basically a Turbo 400 with overdrive, it is a beast. It is just a strong as a Turbo 400 but will cost you. Then again the 502 will also. The 4L80E is big, long and really heavy not many people run them because of the cost but it would be sweet and last with the power of the 502.
     
  6. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I would say the same thing as extremeblazer. Go with the TH400, or better yet, get the TH475, which has better planetary gears in it. Its simply a TH400 with straight cut gears instead of angled, curved ones the 400 has. Much stronger tranny too. But if you need strength and mileage at the same time, go with the 4L80E, for the overdrive. You can never go wrong with the NP205, either.
     
  7. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.newventuregear.com/transmissions.html>NV4500</A>, anybody????

    Murphy's Laws on Life :
    "It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object to realize you are in a hurry."
     
  8. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    My question, How well do these aftermarkets hold up, I don't want to have to find some specialty part a year down the line and pay twice the price to fix it.... Not to mention, trials????? I don't know, need more info....

    K.I.S.S.!!!!!!!!

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Batmanjr on 03/27/01 08:59 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  9. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    I've heard that a D70 isn't the way to go. Some reason about Gear line up and not practicle for heavy duty purpose. I THINK it was Steven that said something along the lines of not gaining enough purpose to go above a D60 in another person's forum. What is a 44 FF and why is it so much better than a D60 in the rear? I really think we're right on the money with the D60 in the front, But i'm not quite sure what a 44 FF is or why it's better.
    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Batmanjr on 03/27/01 09:01 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  10. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Thatk30guy,
    Exactly why is the 475 better than the 400. And is it going to give me a substantle increase in power or agility. Will it hold out longer? Remember, Off Road only vehicle, What are miles when you hit the dirt? I want strength, Power, and rugedness. Period! I don't want to be doing field repairs if I can handle it. What are your thoughts on aftermarket transfers? Is it extreamly worth dropping a 502 W/510lbs or would it be more worth my while to drop a 350 W/400lbs?
     
  11. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    GM CORPORATE 14-BOLT
    With a 10 1/2-inch-diameter ring gear, the biggest 14-bolt GM rearend looks much like a Dana 70, and is but a few thousandths of an inch shorter in ring gear diameter. This axle is commonly used with big engines and/or overly large tires. It was used under 1973-87 3/4-tons.

    Almost everyone with heavy duty axles has 14 bolt FF in the rear and Dana 60's in the front. Not to mention that the Detroit locker is alot cheaper for the 14 FF.

    - SlyDog
     
  12. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks Slydog
    Please excuse my lack of intelect here!!! How much better is the 14 than a D60. Are the Gear Diam. different?
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    The Dana 60 has a ring gear diameter of 9.75" compared to the 14 bolt FF ring gear of 10.5". The 14 bolt also has slightly larger axles...all around a stronger axle. The best part is that they are extremely common and parts are plentiful and cheap. The detroit locker for the 14 bolt is also the least expensive because it re-uses the existing carrier, I guess it is the only carrier considered to be large enough and strong enough to be re-used. Disk brake kits are also readily available and reasonably priced. All this and it basically just bolts right up, whats not to like??[​IMG]
    The one downside to a 14 bolt is its physical size, you will have less ground clearance than you would with a Dana 60, but many people 'shave' the bottom of the housing for improved clearance without any problems.
    Its pretty hard to beat a diff thats this strong, usually comes with good gears (4.10's are common), has good aftermarket support and can usally be found for under $300...
    For me the best part is not HAVING to carry extra parts for it, if I'm doing something that would break it a spare axle likely won't help me because the rest of the drivetrain will probably be scattered!
    It looks like you want bulletproof reliability as well as simplicity and ease of finding replacement parts, I think you can acheive this and have a 502, and I mentioned the combo in my first reply...502, TH400, NP 205, Dana 60, C14 bolt FF. Add some well built drivelines and enjoy![​IMG]
    If you don't mind a standard tranny a SM 465 4 speed also falls into the bomb-proof category. Its good points include a 6.55 to 1 first gear and is also very common and inexpensive to find.

    Good luck with it!

    Rene

    [​IMG]<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jules.coloradok5.com>http://jules.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  14. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I was just re-reading you posts and it occurred to me that you haven't mentioned what you're building the truck to do...are you into rock-crawling it or mud bogging? For mud and huge tires i'd say go for the 502, there's no replacement for displacement![​IMG] For rocks I'd say a healthy 350 or 383 stroker would be more than enough.
    Just a few more thoughts...

    Rene

    [​IMG]<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jules.coloradok5.com>http://jules.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  15. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    The 475 was widely used in motorhomes. You figure out the weight and power the motorhomes need to get them to move. I am on limited time right now, but if I could find the article in the magazines, they show the comparisons of the 400 and 475, and the 475 wins hands down. It simply is bulletproof in small ways the 400 cant pass. I suggest you to ask Stephen or call a reputable tranny shop and ask them for the full info. Sorry for not having time right now.
     
  16. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Rene,

    I am new to the K5 world, but I thought I remember reading in one of the recent "Off Road"-type magazines where they compared all of the different rear axles, including the D60 and 14 Bolt. I remember they compared all the components in each (ring and pinion, axle sizes, spline count, hubs, u-joints, etc) I thought I recalled that the D60 was considered stronger overall, though the exact reason escapes me now...

    I do remember that the article mentioned that the 14Bolt was a lot cheaper and offered most of the strength and durability of the D60, so it was a very good choice also. Maybe someone else here remembers the details?

    I don't claim to be an expert....just trying to offer another perspective and/or data points for consideration.

    -Greg72
    72 CST
    w/ neither a 14Bolt OR D60 [​IMG]
     
  17. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Sorry to butt in here, but just wanted to answer Greg's question.

    Greg,
    Not sure what article your read, but the D60 rear, or front for that matter, are NOT stronger then the 14bolt rear for all the reasons Rene pointed out. They are strong no question, but compared to the 14bolt, no way. But, the D60 front is the strongest front axle you can find for our trucks (direct bolt on). The D60 rear is like 3rd place in strenth category as far as the rear axle is concern. The 14bolt is considered overkill for a 1/2 ton truck. But overkill is what you want in a rear axle. So if something breaks first, you don't want it to be your rear, b/c you can just put it back in 2WD and drive home and fix whatever it is later. (except for the rear drive shaft ofcourse, definately want to beef that up with 1350 Ujoints/shafts atleast).
    Anyhow, just to say my .02 piece on the D70 rear. The D70 rear, if you can find the right one, is stronger than the 14bolt by a smigine (sp?). The D70 came in all different kinds of spline counts, so that's a pain. The right ones will have 35 spline shafts. The 14bolt has 30 spline shafts. But they're both 1.5" diameter. So, there you have it. [​IMG]
    Boss

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boss.coloradok5.com>http://www.boss.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  18. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Its my understanding that a Dana 60 can be "built" to be stronger than a 14 bolt, but it is spendy...there are all sorts of aftermarket axles and the like for the Dana 60. 40 spline axles that dwarf the 14 bolt axles come to mind.
    In my responses I tried to answer the question keeping within the parameters given. If you re-read the posts you will note at the end of one post "K.I.S.S" It was my understanding that simplicity and strength combined with easy parts availabilty were the main concerns. With that in mind I responded with what I beleive to be the strongest, least expensive drivetrain that bolts right up to a K5 [​IMG]. If the question was what is the strongest driveline available no holds barred, that would be a completely different answer.

    Also if a small block was being retained rather than a big block (502 no less) I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Dana 60 rear, but tire size and end use was never mentioned (yet).

    So I stand behind my original drivetrain recomendation, for all the reasons mentioned...[​IMG]

    Rene

    [​IMG]<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jules.coloradok5.com>http://jules.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  19. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Man,
    I hope you guys don't start throwing punches on my account. Sounds like I started an opinion poll. Anyways, I really apreciate all this overwhelming great info. Sounds like if I want to keep it simple; RJ350, th400, np205, D60 front, and 14 FF Rear. If I want to be andventerious; RJ502, th475, np205, D60 front, and custom rebuilt D60 rear. If this is wrong, please correct me. If you have any more info or want to defend your opinion more, please do. I love all this info, it really helps to get an understanding before I start yanking and buying.......
    Bruce
     
  20. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Nope, not a heated word from me, hence the smilie at the end. I'm sure you'll get even more opinions though! Good luck whichever way you go.

    Rene

    [​IMG]<A target="_blank" HREF=http://jules.coloradok5.com>http://jules.coloradok5.com</A>
     

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