Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

56s backwards and pinion angle

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by sandawgk5, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I have 56s in my K5 with a 14FF and a shackle flip. My pinion is pointed at my tcase and my axle has moved forward due to the flip and the pinion is longer as well. I need to rotate my pinion down to bring Ujoint angles closer to each other. Here are some pics of the joints.
    Pinion
    [​IMG]
    Tcase
    [​IMG]
    It appears in the photo of the Tcase that I have plenty of slip in the case. Now for the question.

    Can I flip my 56s around and corect my pinion angle? The pin is not in the center of the spring and it appears that flipping them around will rotate the pinion down. I also need to add a zero rate to bring the rear up and I would prefer to not have a tapered one. As most I am on a budget of $0 so I am trying to find the cheapest way possible to do this. I also have a stock cover on my 14FF and it looks like I will not have any clearance issues with the gas tank. I am open to ideas guys.

    Thanks

    Ira
     
  2. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Posts:
    45,031
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    man, to bad the budget is zero.. you could SYE, run a CV shaft and your ff14b angle would be perfect. :thumb:

    j
     
  3. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    Ya if I had the cash I would buy K10andykhamnics sye-208 but I dont have the cash. The budget is not technically zero but it is low:o . I might just have to eat it and get tapered zero rates. I would really like to move the axle back also as it looks really far foward in the wheel well.

    Ira
     
  4. alf4444

    alf4444 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Posts:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    T-ville, ut.
    So is that a good pinion angle if it weren't a sy. Thats what mine looks like with my fixed yoke
     
  5. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    It depends, that is perfect for a CV shaft. If your non-slip yoke has a CV at the Tcase it is perfect.:D Mine does not vibrate unless I am coasting and I think that has to do with the Detroit in the rear. I would however like to bring the operating angle of the 2 joints in so they live alittle longer.:o

    Ira
     
  6. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin,TX
    Your pinion angle will stay the same if you flip your 56's. Yes it will go down but you are also moving the axle back 4" which will keep the angle the same.
    If you want cheap then cut the purches loose and rotate it down. Otherwise spend the $30 for shims.
     
  7. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I am confused, if I rotate the pinion down how does moving the axle backwards point it back at the Tcase?

    Ira
     
  8. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin,TX
    Yea its hard to understand.
    Ok think of it as 2 steps.
    If you go and look now.
    First step is rotate pinion down. That is good.
    Now push the axle back 4" and the pinion angle will be in the same spot.
     
  9. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I am going to rotate the pinion down by flipping the springs around this will put the leaf pin behind the center of the spring and on the "upslope" of the spring to the shackle. This will subsequently point the pinion down from where it is now. I am not seeing where how the pinion is going to be pointed back up at the Tcase.:dunno:

    Ira
     
  10. thor

    thor 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Posts:
    512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wa
    That is my experience also.
     
  11. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin,TX
    Fine then go flip them.:rolleyes:
     
  12. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I am not calling you out I just do not understand why the pinion will go back up.

    Ira
     
  13. K10ANDYKHAMNIC

    K10ANDYKHAMNIC 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2001
    Posts:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Western CO
    If it doesnt vibe while driving now , I wouldnt worry about it too much .I would flip the springs . Get the zero rates to correct the angle and move it back at the same time.PMing you now......
     
  14. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I just thought about it and I think I understand. It has to do with 56s basically being flat with the weight of the truck on them. The rear of the spring is always lower than the front with the flip. So regardless of where the spring pin is do to the mount alone the pinion will always point at the tcase. Is this correct?

    The reason I have not cut the perches is I have the huge cast ones:doah: .

    Ira
     
  15. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin,TX
    Hang on let me go play in paint and make a picture:D
     
  16. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    Sweet, I am a mechanic I need pictures:D .

    Ira
     
  17. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Posts:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin,TX
    Alright, so in my beautiful drawing(:D ) you can see that the further the axle is moved back the less steep the angle becomes on the driveshaft.

    So when you flip the 56's even though it lowers the pinion some with it being moved back the angle on the driveshaft is going to be about the same.
    Understand??
    [​IMG]
     
  18. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST

    We are talking about 2 different things:doah: . I am trying to correct pinion angle only not the operating angle of the Dshaft. I might have improperly used a term about operating angles. What I was trying to say was that I would like each ujoint to be at the same angle as they rotate. Is this acheivable by flipping my springs around or does the drawing still apply. I realize it is paint and not autocad:D . Not trying to argue just trying to get it straight in my head dont wanna do a lot of work just to be where I am right now ya know.:D

    Ira
     
  19. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    4,675
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Ohio
    I think I understand where both of you are coming from in regard to angles. If currently on the truck the pinion angle is pointed straight with the driveshaft, let's say 10 degrees just for an example......then both the pinion and driveshaft are at 10 degrees up.

    If you keep the pinion angle at 10 degrees and just move the axle back, then the driveline angle now becomes less (let's say 5 degrees as an example) because the distance between the t-case output and the pinion is now longer and thus by simple geometry the angle decreases.

    So on a 56" spring, assuming the bottom has a small but contant arch, you would rotate the pinion down (slightly "up" angle for forward springs, and slightly "down" angle for reverse springs) but you would have to have a difference of 5 degrees between the two mounting points on the springs just to be back where you were to begin with.

    Another thought......if your budget is very low, keep in mind you will need to have the driveshaft lengthened to work with the reverse 56" springs.
     
  20. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2003
    Posts:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Kitsap County PACNORWEST
    I guess I will get tapered zero rates and get them cut to allow me to move the rear back 1.5" to center up in the wheel well. Or should I get straight zero rates and then a shim to correct angle. I can get the zero rates and then if there are no vibrations then I can call it good.

    Thanks

    Ira
     

Share This Page