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6.2 just stopped running / will turn over!

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by 77 Mud Buddy, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    Here is the story.
    /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
    I recently bought a 87 K-30, All it needed was new batteries, a starter, and purge the fuel lines and I got it running. I let it idle for about an hour with accasionally reving it up to hear how it sounded and look for smoke and such. The first test drive revealed a bad tranny ( only 1st and reverse) It then sat for a couple days till I just couldn't wait to take it for another test drive. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    This test drive went bad. To begin with I now didnt even have 1st gear, only reverse. So I start to reverse it around the block to get it in my drive way again and it just quit running about half way around the block. No noises, no smoke, no nothing, it just quit. It turned over just fine it just wouldnt fire up. I had to tow it back around the block and just left it till after I swapped the tranny.

    A couple weeks ago I swapped in a new th400 / 208. Last monday I tried to fire it up again and test out the used 400. I figured it quit running last time due to air in the fuel pump. I purge the fuel lines for a fix. Note: I didnt do as good of a purge job this time but I seemed to be getting plenty of fuel up to the new fuel filter so I tried firing it up. For the life of me It would not fire up. Turned over just fine but no indication of firing up.

    I called Batman JR. for some help. He had a lot of good advice but I just wanted to pick y'all brains for other possible things to check too.

    Batman JR. suggested if there is white smoke coming out the tail pipes then you have fuel, therfore it is a glow plug problem. If there is no white smoke then you have a fuel problem. Here is where I have a delima.

    When I turn the key on the glow plug light comes on and the battery voltage takes a dive at first. Only about 3 seconds or so and the light goes out and the voltage comes back up to 12 or so volts. Because of this I belive the GP's are working fine. Secondly the engine just stopped running from a running condition. This also tells me the GP's are probably fine. (I reserve the right to be completely wrong)

    When I am turning it over there is white smoke coming out of the pipes as if there is fuel there but it doesnt fire up.

    Upon Batman JR's suggestion I cracked the #1 and #8 injectors hard lines and had a friend crank it over to see if fuel was getting to them. I saw a little gurgling of fuel there but not as much as I was expecting. Should there be a lot of fuel coming out of those?

    Assuming I have good GP's and there seems to be fuel there what could be causing these symptoms. Note, my air cleaner is not new but I did knock it clean and the truck was running pretty good before she just stopped firing.

    My next plan of action is to replace all soft lines and purge the system. Then try to fire it up! Sound good?

    Am I on the right track? Any thing sound familiar to others here?

    I'm also wonding what are the symptoms of a injection pump going bad! Is this my problem?

    Thanks for any help y'all can render!

    (Just a guy trying to fake as a diesel mechanic) /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     
  2. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    Usually injection pumps don't just die. Did the Injection pump solonoid wire fall off? Did the timming chain break? The lift pump diapham could have suddenly torn or broke (easy fix).
     
  3. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    I didnt check the injection pump solenoid wire at first but I have messed with it when I purged the fuel sysetem most recently. I made sure it was on good when I tried firing it up. I didnt check to see if any voltage was getting there though. Could be a blown fuse or something may be.

    I thought about the timing chain at first but wouldnt pistons be hitting valves if the crank / cam was not in sync? If so I havent heard anything unusual when trying to start it besides it just not starting.

    The lift pump... I'm assuming that is the mechanical pump on the bottom of the block. right? On that note, it is pumping up to the fuel filter on the fire wall alright. Just dont know about all the way to the injectors.

    I will for sure check the solenoid for power though!

    Thanks for the suggestions!
     
  4. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Well one thing caught my attention, and it doesn't explain why it died to start with but the glow plugs should cycle a little more than 3 seconds for it to start the first time, if you only see the glow plugs cycle for 3 seconds, then you might not have enough heat.
    Just my 2 cents.
    Other than that I don't know much yet about injection pumps so I can't help you there.
    Good luck.
     
  5. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    the GP's do cycle upon the first attemp of starting. They will turn on as it is just sitting there and as I am trying to start it. I can even hear the starter motor slow a bit when the glow plugs take a load on the system while attempting to start.
     
  6. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    No problem.

    Never underestimate the power and confusability of a 1/2 broke life pump. If it is torn on the inside it could still pump fuel fixed with air and cause a TON of problems.

    Have your tried to cycle the glow plugs 5 times or so then start? How about holding the pedal down 1/2 or 100% while cranking? If it is above 60 degrees or so the engine should start with only a couple seconds of glow plugs.

    Be SUPER CAREFULL trying this. While your buddy is cranking the engine over try spraying a tiny amount of WD40 into the intake (remove the air cleaner). If it doesn't start try a small bit more. If this startes the engine then you have a fuel delivery problem. If not you probably have a compression or possibly a glow plug issue. Using too much WD could cause the engine to start and rev uncontrolably if not used properly, be carefull!
     
  7. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    Duely noted about the fuel pump possibly being 1/2 broken / 1/2 working.

    I have not tried cycling the glow plugs yet before starting, I might try that after I replace the soft lines and purge the sysetm again. I have tried using half pedal / full pedal while starting, didnt do anything. As for the weather out here in TX it has been from the 60's to 80's so I dont think there is a lot of worry about cold starting just yet but I'll keep that in mind for the coming months.

    WD-40 you say.... that sounds like a good fuel check test but I agree on it being dangerous. I might try that if I cant get it running with new lines and purged.

    Thanks again for the info!
     
  8. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    My guess would be water in the system from sitting so long. Its the only thing I can think of that explains both the shutdown and the no start conditions. Try draining the old fuel out of the tank or temporarily rig up a fuel can and line with fresh fuel into the feed pump and see if it starts on that. Its also possible you have two seperate problems that occurred at the same time. Maybe you have bad glowplugs and or controller and some sort of fuel delivery problem at the same time. My best guess though is there is slug of water in your system, enough to have killed the engine and not allow it to start again. Good luck
     
  9. doctor4x4

    doctor4x4 1/2 ton status

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    I like a lot what BLUE said WITH WATER OR CRAP IN FUEL
    and BIGBLOCK WITHTHE TIMING
    WILL ONLY ADD 1 THING
    check the timing adjustment nut on the injection pump make sure its tight i wounder if it was looose and the vibration of the motor turned it to farr 1 way enought to make it quit and not start but not to damage anything
    good luck and let us know
     
  10. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    Well, I started removing soft lines last night. Somebody had cut the hard line right off of the lift pumps output to the fuel filter and patched it with a soft line. I went to replace this line and basicly there was no fuel that leaked out. This line was essentially dry. OBVIOUSLY it mus be leaking at a low point and getting air in the lines. I didnt finish the soft line swap due to a prior promise to my neighbors daugter that I would attned her school play. So hopfully tonight I will finish the soft line swap, may be even change the filter agian, purge the lines, use known good fuel, and fire this BIATCH up! I'll keep y'all posted! Thanks for all the suggestions!
     
  11. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Hey man.... Obviously I didn't mention HOW MUCH white smoke you should be getting! When you do get this think bleed, turn the ignition on, let the glow plugs cycle and thenwait a good 3 minutes to let the cylinders cool down... When you crank, you'll see what I mean about white smoke! In the winter, I make such a large cloud, I can't see the neighbors house for a good minute or two!!!! You'll see, all apart of the learning process! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. 77 Mud Buddy

    77 Mud Buddy 1/2 ton status

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    Replaced the soft lines. They all were dry, I got less than an ounce of diesel between them all. I filled all the lines with fuel and tried to fire her up. It took a couple seconds but sure enough she ran great from a 5 gallon container of fresh Diesel. So I put the lines back to the on board tank and out of curiosities sake I started filling the, supposedly full, tank to see if it would take any more diesel. The tank sounded empty and ended up taking the full 5 gallons. Turns out that I just ran out of fuel! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    So yesterday I finally got her running again. I was pretty stoked but I needed to fill the tranny and transfer before taking her for a spin around the block. Well, I start checking her over and the side tank was dripping diesel by a small amount. I guess what happend is the supposedly full tank just leaked out. With these things now known I just purchased 2 new 20 gallon tanks to replace the old ones. The other tank didnt have a cap on it when I bought it so I just dont trust it. Any way, thougt I would give y'all an update to what my problem really was.

    I did get to take the old girl around the block tonight! Damn I like that diesel power off the line. It's just too cool.

    Thanks for all the ideas!
     
  13. OFFRDK5

    OFFRDK5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Yea..no fuel would kinda cause it not to run!! Hope ya get yer tanks on. If you think the Diesel is good on the road, just wiat till you get it off road...
     
  14. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Oh that's too funny, just because it has happened to me a few times, not just in diesels but any engine, good thing you finally found the problem.
    Enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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