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6.5 in a"first gen"

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by yellowK20, Jan 8, 2004.

  1. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    I'm not a big GM diesel fan ....... okay probaly the wrong forum to say that in /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif But I came across a really good deal on a 6.5 NV4500 setup from my boss it has the banks power pack as well as different pump and injectors I was thinking about buying it and putting it in my 69' longbed 4x4 has anyone done this swap ??? is it worth doing the motor that was slated to go in was a mostly stock 454 (about 325 HP ) is this 6.5 gonna be comparable in the Umph category ???? or would this be a better engine for my 88 sub (curently has a Tbi 350) or should I pass and stick with my gas engines /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  2. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    i dont know about the power but i would take it in a minute for my 69. im sure it can be done. the diesel is heavier and the nv4500 is gonna be about 2" longer than what is tstock. so you will have to adjust it accordingly.

    nathan
     
  3. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm not a big GM diesel fan ....... okay probaly the wrong forum to say that in /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif But I came across a really good deal on a 6.5 NV4500 setup from my boss it has the banks power pack as well as different pump and injectors I was thinking about buying it and putting it in my 69' longbed 4x4 has anyone done this swap ??? is it worth doing the motor that was slated to go in was a mostly stock 454 (about 325 HP ) is this 6.5 gonna be comparable in the Umph category ???? or would this be a better engine for my 88 sub (curently has a Tbi 350) or should I pass and stick with my gas engines /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No don't do it.
    It is a very hard project and the power is not comparable.
    I will buy it off him cheap I have a weird liking for the diesel engines.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    But if you insist, it would fit and if it has the banks turbo not the stock turbo, it will be slightly more powerfull than a stock 454 and more torque as well as mileage.
    /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    The diesel is maybe 100 lbs more than the big block...

    It's a tough call, and you're gonna get some really biased answers in this forum. I'd personally do it, but really it depends on how you plan to use the truck and what is most important to you.

    Rene
     
  5. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    It is fairly complicated to swap in a Diesel in an old gasser. The Banks turbo 6.5s were in the range of 190 HP and 410 some ft pounds, about the same power rating the later turboed GM were.

    Here are some items that must be addressed:

    1. Hydroboost
    2. 4-Core radiator
    3. Complete fuel flush
    4. misc wiring
    4. Fuel filter/heater

    I say do it, it is hard to beat Diesel fuel economy, turbo sound, and lots of smelly black diesel smoke.
     
  6. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    thanks for the replys I'm kinda on the fence It's gonna be a driver 60 front 14bolt rear 4.88 's and 38.5 super swamper sx's Im gonna buy the NV4500 for sure but for 500 more I can get the engine and all associated stuff to go with it . how much power can you squeeze outta these things ?????? Is 300hp possible???? reliably???? The only diesels I've ever owned was a 93 dodge cummins ( which I loved and I'm gonna buy another cummins next year) and an 82 k20 with a 6.2 (which is why I'm not a gm diesel fan ) the fuel system is not a big deal I'm gonna be redoing it any ways (tank behind the seat worries me a bit ) so I'm gonna have a guy at work build me a 30 gallon aluminum fuel cell and run new fuel line .Hydro boost ???? has anyone swapped it into a "first gen" ???? the donor truck is a 97 K3500 with about 39,000 miles it was t-boned right behind the drivers door so the front end is perfect think the radiator from it would fit my 69'??? what kind of wiring is involved????? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  7. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    From your description on the first message I thought you had a NA 6.5 with a Banks add-on turbo kit. The stock 97 6.5 turbos were 190 HP. I am not sure what banks stuff he has but high flow injectors/exhaust/intake could probably put you in the 230 HP range. 300 HP is not feasible without lowering the compression of the 6.5 to 18:1 and using a different turbo (GM8 turbo’s exhaust backpressure rises exponentially above 12-14 PSI boost). Keep in mind that the 97 also has the DB4 electronic injection pump and driver, you could remove it and use a marine BD2 and get rid of all the electronics.

    www.heathdiesel.com is now advertising a 80HP 200ft pound computer reprogram for the 97 and up 6.5s, that would get you close to 300HP. The owner of www.kennedydiesel.com just sold his 18:1 6.5 that dynoed at 240 rear wheel HP, there is a parts list on his site showing all the mods required to get there.

    I think a first gen with a 6.5 would be a great project if you have the resources and time to make it all happen. It would be easiest to swap over all the electronics for a DB2 pump (www.peninsulardiesel.com sells a 300HP marine pump). Since the 97 has the belt driven vacuum pump you might be able to get away with running your vacuum booster from it and forget the Hydroboost, only testing would determine.

    I would buy it for $500!

    Let me know if you help when you dig into it.
     
  8. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    From your description on the first message I thought you had a NA 6.5 with a Banks add-on turbo kit. The stock 97 6.5 turbos were 190 HP. I am not sure what banks stuff he has but high flow injectors/exhaust/intake could probably put you in the 230 HP range. 300 HP is not feasible without lowering the compression of the 6.5 to 18:1 and using a different turbo (GM8 turbo’s exhaust backpressure rises exponentially above 12-14 PSI boost). Keep in mind that the 97 also has the DB4 electronic injection pump and driver, you could remove it and use a marine BD2 and get rid of all the electronics.

    www.heathdiesel.com is now advertising a 80HP 200ft pound computer reprogram for the 97 and up 6.5s, that would get you close to 300HP. The owner of www.kennedydiesel.com just sold his 18:1 6.5 that dynoed at 240 rear wheel HP, there is a parts list on his site showing all the mods required to get there.


    I think a first gen with a 6.5 would be a great project if you have the resources and time to make it all happen. It would be easiest to swap over all the electronics for a DB2 pump (www.peninsulardiesel.com sells a 300HP marine pump). Since the 97 has the belt driven vacuum pump you might be able to get away with running your vacuum booster from it and forget the Hydroboost, only testing would determine.

    I would buy it for $500!

    Let me know if you help when you dig into it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You are forgetting one important add on:
    Propane injection can easily give you an extra 80-90 HP on a turboed 6.5l
    That should put you in the 300 HP range, but you really will like the TQ ratings you would get.
    I don't know why people always look for HP numbers, it's all in the torque.
    HP is an urban Legend, it's a factor of torque and RPM, the higher RPM's you can reach, the more HP numbers you get but you would start with a healthy torque number.
    If you change your mind, let me know, I am always looking for a 6.5 Turbo.
    If it's in good shape, I will buy it off you with a small profit for your trouble.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  9. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    Well this sounds more interesting the more I look into it I told him that I'd buy it during lunch if all else fails I've got a dually that needs a new motor (was a 6.2 ) but it's 2-wheel /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif propane is a possibilty I'd like to have about 300hp and 550-575 ft/lbs with out using propane /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    It's not ever gonna be a Cummins...if you're expecting that kind of power level you will never be happy with the 6.5 TD

    300hp and 575tq without propane is an unreasonably high expectation IMHO.

    Rene
     
  11. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    I agree with Rene. I don't know a lot about early diesels because I havent owned owned one(almost though) but I do know they aren't power house motors like the cummins and 575 ft pounds is a lot without propane or tearing the motor apart and lowering the compression, etc...

    If you are that hungary for power then I would get the tranny and look for a newer 5.9 cummins.
    There is a guy that owns a local shop here with a custom built dodge and he has almost all the possible power goodies you can get for the cummins and he is pushing over 1,000 ft pounds of torque supposedly. I have seen it a couple of times...once at the truck pulls where he kept pulling the sled past the full pull line and didn't stop until the front 60 blew in half a few feet past the line. I could here the turbo screaming and watching it blow a black clowd of smoke coming out of the open 5" exhaust. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  12. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    Ok so what is a reasonable power expectation from this engine ???? A cummins would be nice but theres not a whole lot of 500 dollor cummins engines laying around /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif i may just stick the tranny in my truck and save the 6.5 for my dually project later down the road
     
  13. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    A cummins is a great engine but it is more complicated to install in a GM than most people think. A $500 6.5 is a good buy, combined with a few enhancements it will feel like it has plenty of power.
     
  14. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    I think I may just hang on to this engine for a work truck ( like my dually or my burb ) I don't want to be unhappy with the power after I do all the work to swap it in I 'm pretty sure I'll just go with the bigblock for now in my 69' and use the 6.5 for more of a utility vehicle . my 69 is goona be for fun /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    I think I may just hang on to this engine for a work truck ( like my dually or my burb ) I don't want to be unhappy with the power after I do all the work to swap it in I 'm pretty sure I'll just go with the bigblock for now in my 69' and use the 6.5 for more of a utility vehicle . my 69 is goona be for fun /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So you're not gonna sell it to me. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  16. yellowK20

    yellowK20 Well Lubricated Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: 6.5 in a\"first gen\"

    Sorry I'm gonna keep it and use it just not in the 69 the dually is gonna get this engine (86 C-30 regular cab SM-465 ) i was goona put a 366 high deck in this truck but the 6.5 would be better for what I have planned for this truck .
     

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