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6 pt. or 12 pt. tools

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84k5, Jun 26, 2003.

  1. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    All my sockets now are 'Husky' (Home Depot) and are 12 pt. I've managed to strip a couple of the 1/2" drive to the point they are worthless.

    I am going to buy a nice set of craftsmen tools so if this happens again I can take it back. I don't have the money for snap-on or matco or whatever the bling bling is.

    I can't decide between an all 6 pt. set or 12 pt. Six would be stronger, but I know there are times when its hard to get a six point in a tight spot because the bolt is turned in such a way. Since I can take the 12pt. back if it were to break...

    What to get, 6 or 12 pt.???? Oh yea, I promised my old tools to a buddy so keeping them isnt in the plan.

    Mucho thanks. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  2. SUBFAN

    SUBFAN 1/2 ton status

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    What???? Getting rid of tools???? Unheard of....

    But seriously, You need a collection of both. Make sure the tool fits correctly, and isn't metric or some crap like that. Those old tools come in handy for pounding onto those rounded off bolt heads or making custom tools out of....
     
  3. Don

    Don 1/2 ton status

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    They both have their own use's, a 12 point for tight spot's that a ratchet will only turn a couple of click's, a 6 point for easy access bolt's/nut's, Your'e gonna end up needing both, so keep the 12's, and purchase some 6's. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  4. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    You have a set of 12 pt, keep them. Take the broke ones back, H-D has a lifetime warrantee on Husky tools. Now go buy a set of 6 pt for things that are stuck. NEVER GIVE AWAY TOOLS!!! (unless it is to one of your children)
     
  5. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    IMHO 12 point sockets suck /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif They are really manufactured for use on 12 point nuts. Six point is the way to go. I've have never found the need to have a 12 point due to limited clearance. You need a better ratchet (more detents or "clicks") if you do /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    as stated before, Home depot has lifetime warranty as well, and home depot sure is open later than sears!

    As for 6 or 12 pt, 12pt is ok for general work, makes fitting it onto bolts a little easier, but I wouldnt use it for anything that my air wrench cant turn, which is somewhere around 30 ft lbs at the most. 6 points is what I try to use most of the time, I dont recall the last time I rounded off a nut. Now, I do recall the last time I sheered the head off a few nuts though!
     
  7. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    As a young mechanic trying to go to school and make ends meet, I found that Craftsman was the BEST choice in tools for someone who can't afford Snap-on. That said, I would buy 6-point sockets and 12-point wrenches. This is why: for a socket, your range of motion is determined by the ratchet, not the socket so you might as well get the 6-point sockets for strength and resistance to rounding off bolts. For a wrench, a 12-point has twice as many options to find the best range of motion. Using a 6-point wrench in a tight spot is frustrating to say the least. Also, 99.9% of bolts/nuts will come off with a 12 point without rounding. I have had very good luck with my Craftsman tools and you can't beat a forever, no questions asked free replacement warranty.
     
  8. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    This is why: for a socket, your range of motion is determined by the ratchet, not the socket so you might as well get the 6-point sockets for strength and resistance to rounding off bolts.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    For a socket, your range of motion can be determined by both the socket and the ratchet. The only way it can't be determined by the socket is if you never take it off the fastener for an adjustment.
     
  9. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    It wouldn't be any more difficult to place a 6 point versus a 12 point socket on the head of a fastener. Once the socket is on, you just turn the ratchet until it fits and then you can operate with as little as 5 degrees of motion (some fine toothed ratchets can be even less). The 6 or 12 point would make no difference in the range of motion unless you are using a breaker bar or something similar with no ratcheting mechanism or a fixed head.. With the breaker bar you would need at least 30 degrees of motion for 12 point or 60 degrees range of motion for 6 point.
     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    General question, not really hijacking I don't think.

    Can't you compare 6 vs 12 point to axle splines?

    Theoretically, won't a 12 point bolt head be much stronger than a corresponding 6 point?

    I'm guessing the real problem is tolerance and less material/more flex in the 12 point sockets and wrenches?
     
  11. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    The problem is the bolt still has six sides. Your lose contact area with the 12 pt.
     
  12. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    also, a 12 point bolt would be very weak. THe more points on a side of a bolt, the weaker the strength is for you to grab at each corner. More points= more like a circle!
     
  13. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    also, a 12 point bolt would be very weak. THe more points on a side of a bolt, the weaker the strength is for you to grab at each corner.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Perhaps my thinking is incorrect on this, but isn't this akin to saying that a 32 spline shaft is weaker than a 10 spline shaft because the 32 has shallower threads and is more "circle like"? I'm not attempting to be sarcastic here, but the above analogy seems fitting in this case...am I wrong?
     
  14. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    A 32 spline shaft is stronger than a 10 spline shaft because there is more surface area at the point where the splines mesh. A 12-point socket has much less surface area on the head of a hex fastener than a 6-point. This lack of surface contact is what makes 12-point sockets/wrenches more prone to rounding. I dont think there is much difference in the strength of the socket between 6 and 12 point. It probably depends on the thickness of the outer wall. That is why impact sockets are so thick. One interesting note, all of the sockets I have ever broken were 6 point. I'm not sure what the significance of that is.
     
  15. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    My unscientific answer is a 12 pt wrench on a hex fastner is weeker than a 6 pt wrench on a hex fastener. But a 12 pt wrench on a 12 pt fastener is stronger-or more properly, capable of a higher torque load at the junction-than a 6pt wrench on a hex fastner. Of course no way a 6 pt wrench will work on a 12 pt fastner.
     
  16. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    A 12-point socket has much less surface area on the head of a hex fastener than a 6-point.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How is that so? 6 point hex head bolt I have here measures .618" across opposite "flats". From opposite "point to point" it's .694". With 12 points, you'd have MORE surface/contact area vs. a 6 point.

    Perhaps its the angle on the "points" that makes rounding easier, although with more points, albeit each being weaker (to an unknown extent) the sum of all 12 you would *imagine* would be greater than the sum of the 6. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  17. SUBFAN

    SUBFAN 1/2 ton status

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    Nothing on T.V. ???? WOW, meassuring your sockets /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Lot of things I *wouldn't* know if I sat in front of the TV all day (instead of the computer lol), which is why there was no TV in the house until my roommate brought his. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I'd trade the internet fo TV any day, especially when it comes to vehicle information.
     
  19. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    A 12-point socket has much less surface area on the head of a hex fastener than a 6-point.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How is that so? 6 point hex head bolt I have here measures .618" across opposite "flats". From opposite "point to point" it's .694". With 12 points, you'd have MORE surface/contact area vs. a 6 point.

    Perhaps its the angle on the "points" that makes rounding easier, although with more points, albeit each being weaker (to an unknown extent) the sum of all 12 you would *imagine* would be greater than the sum of the 6. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    A 12 point socket has more surface area, but on a 6 point fastener only 1/2 of the 12 points are used. With a 6 point socket, almost the entire flat side of the fastener contacts the socket on all 6 sides. On a 12 point you still only have 6 contact points, but the surface actually pushing on the fastener is much smaller, and the place it contacts is out near the point this is why it is more prone to rounding..
     

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