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700r4-79 k15??

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by TorkDSR, Dec 2, 2001.

  1. TorkDSR

    TorkDSR 1/2 ton status

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    so i got my output shaft from advance adapters for the 700-r4 to a 205 combo. 180$$$$$$$$ and i took the 700 outta shaggy k5's k5 and i had to cut of these 4 little wires. what the hell are they for. the last thing i need are silly little wires screwing up my wheeling. what are they, can i bypass them, or make them work manually?

    anybody else do this swap? the guy from advance adapters said its very popular. ah, whatever

    Tork DSR
    "Easy killer. That's technology you talk of..."
    http://www.torkpig.homestead.com<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by TorkDSR on 12/02/01 03:19 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  2. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    A little more info:
    the 700r4 is from an 85 k5 parts truck, the little wires are on the driver side (i think) about half way back the trans. We dont know what they go to, so do you? I KNOW there are guys here who have done this swap before. Help some brothers out.

    -matt
    <font color=blue>86, 350, 35"TSL's</font color=blue><font color=red>Lop Sop Doi Off-Road</font color=red>
    www.chevyhedk5.tripod.com
     
  3. Wheels

    Wheels 1/2 ton status

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    Oh boy are you in for some fun. The wires you cut go to the valve body for shifting and torque convertor lockup. Not to worry, you can bypass all of these and have it built to hydraulically lock up. Did this swap earlier this year on a 79. Took out the TH350/NP203 and put in a 87 700R4 and a NP 205. The strut rod that goes from the bell housing to the t-case will have to be modified, best to do the measuring and test fitting with the t-case and tranny married and still out on the ground. Cross member needs to be moved back a few inches and new holes drilled in the frame. New torque convertor and would recommend addition of a cooler. The 4-wheel shifter will not go through the original hole. If you have a 205, I can take a picture of the mount I fabricated to help with the offset and the new linkage I built. There is tons of info, e-mail me with any specifics.
     
  4. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    ok, we have the converter taken care of, and we know the strut rod will not fit exactly, and its not a problem to move the crossmember on the frame. Thanks[​IMG]
    How do you modify for use without the plug-in for shift/lockup? I remember hearing about this before, but didnt pay that much attention because I already have a 700, i didnt realize that TorkDSR would be taking my old one so soon.

    -matt
    <font color=blue>86, 350, 35"TSL's</font color=blue><font color=red>Lop Sop Doi Off-Road</font color=red>
    www.chevyhedk5.tripod.com
     
  5. Wheels

    Wheels 1/2 ton status

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    Easiest way is to get the Painless kit. It uses a vacum switch that only allows lock up when you have good engine vacum and it is in 3/4 gear (gets a completed path from a pressure switch in the valve body and it sends a command to the TCC for positive lockup). It also comes with a new brake switch that kicks it off when you hit the brakes. You can get power from the switched side of the fuse box. Only one wire the runs from the fuse bos to the brake switch, to the vacum switch, to the tranny (plug included). Real simple to install. Real reliable and it comes with instructions that are easy to understand. TCI, B&amp;M also makes one but heard a lot of negative comments on their products. I'm using the Painless and it has lived up to it's name. I did do one modification to the kit and installed an in-dash rocker switch to kill power to it if I wish to, haven't had to yet.
     
  6. TorkDSR

    TorkDSR 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the info and the pm. how much was the wire eliminator kit thingy?

    and matt thanks for the trans that was YOURS

    Tork DSR
    "Easy killer. That's technology you talk of..."
    http://www.torkpig.homestead.com
     
  7. Wheels

    Wheels 1/2 ton status

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    Do some shopping around. I ordered mine from O'Reillys and I think it was $95.
     
  8. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Wheels (or anyone) can you help me with this?
    Can you see what type of clearance you have?
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=blazer4x4&amp;Number=280322&amp;page=2&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=0&amp;part=>Click Here</a>

    Thanks in advance

    See my rig at <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot> click here </a>
     
  9. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    FWIW, the 700 doesn't use any electrical input (that vintage) to govern gear changes. TCC lock/unlock only is electric. Hydraulic lockup is the way I would go. Rumors of the 700 "blowing up" (heh) from running with the TCC inoperative, but more than likely, this is due to improper cooling. (from teh TCC not locking up, and no aux. cooler)

    Dorian
    My tech/links page: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</a>
    Why insist on counting when the ring gear has the tooth counts stamped in?
     
  10. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    My 700 is plumbed to lock up only in 4th. Running 12V to one of the pins and then grounding another causes it to lock the convertor only once it shifts into 4th. My 12V source is switched on the dash to allow me to unlock the convertor for brief periods (long uphill grades etc.). It doesn't affect the kickdown into 3rd as that's controlled by the detent cable and everything works fine for me. It doesn't unlock with the brakes, but as soon as it shifts out of 4th there's no problem. The biggest problem is caused by running it in 4th (OD) with the convertor unlocked building up a lot of extra slippage and heat. I have a brazed convertor and a fairly decent sized tranny cooler and have had no problems in 2+ yrs.
     
  11. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I was going to say to stick with the stock early 80's converter lockup stuff, because it works, and is readily available. Now I have said it. : )

    Dorian
    My tech/links page: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</a>
    Why insist on counting when the ring gear has the tooth counts stamped in?
     
  12. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    what is the "stock early 80's converter lockup stuff "? Is it what we have been talking about already? Is 85 "early eighties"? Vagueness is not what we need right now, we are trying to get the trans back into the truck. Thanks.

    -matt
    <font color=blue>86, 350, 35"TSL's</font color=blue><font color=red>Lop Sop Doi Off-Road</font color=red>
    www.chevyhedk5.tripod.com
     
  13. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I don't want to put words in his (Dorian's) mouth, but I think he means the vacuum and brake switch combo. My rig originally came with a TH350C (lockup converter). It would lock the computer in 3rd gear only if there was enough vacuum which meant there was no load on the engine, and would unlock if a load was present such as hard acceleration(by a vacuum switch located on firewall), and would also unlock if you stepped on the brakes (hooked into original brake switch). If you look in Jegs and Summit they sell a kit that does the same thing using (at minimum) the vacuum switch (not sure about the brake switch, but you can add that manually if they don't, if you need to, I can get the GM part number for the double ended opposite brake switch). I put a 700 in mine and control it manually (12 volts to one pin and ground to another, if you need me to I can look up which pin was which). I am in the process of hooking it into my brake switch for brake over-ride. I don't want to use a vacuum switch because I run a heftier cam and the vacuum is much less (which would cause it to lock late and unlock prematurely). Hope this helps.

    See my rig at <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot> click here </a>
     
  14. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Without coming off as too much of a jerk, first off, I'm gonna say that you shoulda figured out what the wires did before cutting them.

    Second of all, I figured narrowing the years down from 82-91 was a bit of a help. I *could* have said that a 1983 700 equipped truck is what you need the parts off of, because that is all I know FOR SURE used that system, because I have seen it with my own eyes. BUT, since the trucks did not change immensely from year to year, I figured if you were going to the 'yards looking for this stuff, you would know about what vintage/equipment to look for.

    With all that said, any 700 equipped truck that does NOT use the ECM (1983 for example did not have an ECM, so neither would '82 nor likely 84, 85?) to control lockup, can be utilized. And again, since I don't know when the ECM started controlling lockup, I can't say exactly what years. I was just getting you into the ball park. if I knew more, I wouldn't have to be "vague".


    Dorian
    My tech/links page: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</a>
    Why insist on counting when the ring gear has the tooth counts stamped in?
     
  15. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    I kmew when we cut the wires that they came from the ECM that was equipped on the 85, and was pretty sure they controlled the lockup functions. When I said you were being vague, its because you were. You could have easily said "the system used in my 83, which doesnt have an ECM." Now that you have Explained what you meant by the "stock early eighties stystem" I understand you just fine. Unfortunately we have to use the electrical ovverride kit-jobber that a few companies sell, or we'll fab up our own. Thanks for all your help.

    -matt
    <font color=blue>86, 350, 35"TSL's</font color=blue><font color=red>Lop Sop Doi Off-Road</font color=red>
    www.chevyhedk5.tripod.com
     
  16. TorkDSR

    TorkDSR 1/2 ton status

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    allow me to retort, i have mildly more mechanical aptitude than a flea. i have no problems hooking back up four easily identified color coded wires. i could solder them, crimp them, tape them, or wire nut them; so cutting them is in no way detrimental to the operation of the trans in question.

    as for your "Second of all" please refer to shaggy K5, i think he spelled it out quite well.

    no hard feelings

    Tork DSR
    "look ma, i can make the dog pee white...."
    aol screen name TorkDSR
    http://www.torkpig.homestead.com
     
  17. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    This is how I set mine up. I used a lit toggle switch (As I stated was optional) and didn't use the vacuum switch (must use one that closes with high vacuum and opens with low vacuum) because A.) I didn't like it on my stock 350C and B.)now I don't pull "stock" vacuum. If you need actual color codes (if the Letters on the plastic plug are worn, hard to see, etc.) just let me know and I will get them. As for my 700 it was out of an 87 and did not need the ECM. I think when the 700 went electronic (i.e. the name change from 700 to 4L60) that when you need the ECM. I am not sure of this (or what year), but logically it makes sense.

    click here
     
  18. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    I kmew when we cut the wires that they came from the ECM that was equipped on the 85

    <hr></blockquote>

    You didn't "know" that because an 85 has no ECM. However, you are in luck because what the 85 does have is what you need, the brake switch and bracket, the vacuum switch and all of the wiring. Why buy another kit when the factory stuff works the best?

    The tranny needs 12V constant switched only by the brake and also a switched 12V from the vacuum switch. There is also an output or two (depending on model) that controlled EGR timing and such. You won't have to worry about those.

    The most important thing is that the lockup works in OD. Don't even think about a system that doesn't do that unless you think it's fun to change trannies.

    Just use the factory stuff off the 85. It is the best engineered system available. It also seems to be free to you.

    <font color=green>Oh man, 4:10's are sure better than 3.08's!</font color=green>
     
  19. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    then what is all the stuff thats hooked to the wires that went to the trans and that also go to the electronics on the carb, that then all hookup and plug into the little box thing under the dash? I may very well be mistaken, but I thought that thing was an ECM?

    -matt
    <font color=blue>86, 350, 35"TSL's</font color=blue><font color=red>Lop Sop Doi Off-Road</font color=red>
    www.chevyhedk5.tripod.com
     
  20. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Ok, not just to you, Shaggy as well. So you cut wires that control lockup, and then ask here, how to get lockup to work. Do you see where I'm coming from?

    I'm not trying to insult you in any way. I'm just saying that instead of cutting wires, perhaps you should trace them back to where they come from. Because you might find that they do NOT go to the ECM, even though they may tie into the same wire loom. (if there even is an ECM) Without TPS input, (and we know that '85's didn't get TPS) I don't see GM locking up the converter with the ECM.

    Its very easy to splice wires, and you are right, that has no bearing on trans operation. However, had you traced them, you might have discovered that cutting and splicing were not necessary in the first place.

    Dorian
    My tech/links page: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</a>
    Why insist on counting when the ring gear has the tooth counts stamped in?
     

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