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700r4 Question

Discussion in '1969-1972 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by bassplayer4x4, Mar 14, 2002.

  1. bassplayer4x4

    bassplayer4x4 Registered Member

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    Seems like all I do is ask ??'s but since my 72 is a daily driver and gas prices seem to want to go up, it would make sense to have a 4sp auto with OD -- which from what I understand is a 700r4, correct? Can I replace my 350 with an 700r4 there are a couple on the parts boards. Is this a major undertaking? will it mate up with my NP205? No one ever did confirm my guess on my t-case pics....My truck has a B&M shift kit in it now, but it has L1, L2 and D markings on it.
     
  2. Steve_Chin

    Steve_Chin 1/2 ton status

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    If you are thinking you will recoup the expense of the tranny in gas mileage, forget it. Your Blazer might get slightly better fuel economy, but it's not going to recoup the cost of the tranny unless you drive 40K miles a year for 10 or so years. OK, that might be an exaggeration, but you're really not going to save *that* much gas.

    That said, Advance Adapters has an adapter kit that mates the 205 to the 700-R4 or 4L60E. The swap is kind of like doing a non-original engine swap, but you end up doing it on your back, getting junk in your face and down your shirt. Yes, it's involved.

    I haven't done an automatic swap, but I've done a couple of NV4500 swaps now and I've helped out on a couple more...
     
  3. ntaj*ep

    ntaj*ep 1/2 ton status

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    UMMMM, I'm running a "converted" 700r4 with lock-up. The only part you will need is an output shaft to use it with the 205 case, which indeed is what you have. Now here are some things about the swap I ran into. the spline count on the 700 output shaft is the same as the 350, you will need the a/a shaft because its longer to fit inside the adapter for you t-case. The case of the 700 is longer by about 3/4" the same lengh as a th400, the output bolt patern is the same as the 700 so it will bolt right up to you t-case adapter, with the right metric bolts. The bellhousing pattern is also the same for all engines except for the 2.8l v-6 which is the only one that will not bolt up. The case I have is called a K case, its out of a 4wd truck and has a thicker housing among other things. If you want to manually select 1st gear and hold it you will need a diffrent shifter or modify yours, it will work without though. Mounting the trans. is relitively easy, I mounted the trans. and adapter together with the cross member attached and measured to make sure that it was straight, marked it. then I drilled the holes upper and lower for it, the t-case holes I measured the orginal distance and drilled those. Put the t-case on to the orignal adapter, measured for drivelines.
    Now I did my swap when the truck was a daily driver, I do still drive it to the trail but the main reason for the swap was the lower first gear, and the ability to run lower gears in the axles without spinning 5000rpm on the freeway. I did all the labor (removal and install) I told the trans. shop I wanted a bullitproof assy. and so far so good. With the rebuild, all the sensors (to run lock-up), a core, the shop charged me about $2500.00, then factor in drivelines ect... I couldn't be happer with the swap, on and off road it is awsome. But you need to decide if its worth the up front cost for a few MPG.
     
  4. ntaj*ep

    ntaj*ep 1/2 ton status

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    Steve, what is needed for the NV4500 swap? I'm thinking of that for my 70'.
     
  5. LA Bogger

    LA Bogger 1/2 ton status

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    I was checking on this swap with my K-5, right now it has a 700R and a NP 208. I contacted Advanced adapters the output shaft is 177.00 and about 250. 00 to take apart my 700r to install the new output shaft, then all you have to do is facter in the cost of drive shafts. Around 800.00 to do the swap.

    Eat More Mud
     
  6. Steve_Chin

    Steve_Chin 1/2 ton status

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    ntaj*ep, you will need an NV4500, first of all. If you get a Chrysler (or other non-GM) version, you will need to convert it to a GM 10 spline input and GM 32 spline 4x4 output. If you get a GM 2WD unit, you will need to convert it to a GM 32 spline 4x4 output. If you want a synchronized reverse gear, you will need the Chrysler transmission or you will need to convert the transmission and add the synchronized reverse gear (I did this and I don't think it was worth the $$$ as a performance benefit, so it's one of those "gee-whiz" type modifications).

    You will need a modified Dodge 4x4 tailstock. Advance Adapters sells its own tailstock, but it is wierd and doesn't match up like the Dodge one. It kind of interferes with the transfer case shifter. I think that it can be modified to not interfere, but I've only done the install with the Chrysler tailstock. I did run into a problem with the AA tailstock and put a Chrysler tailstock in in its place (not on my Blazer - I used a Chrysler tailstock on my Blazer).

    You will need an Advance Adapters adapter plate to mate the modified Dodge tailstock up to the NP205 transfer case. You also need a sealed input bearing for your NP205 to prevent fluid migration from the tranny to the transfer case.

    You will need an Advance Adapters coupler sleeve if your NP 205 was originally mated to a TH350 or an SM465. You need a 10x10 spline coupler for an SM465 setup or a 27x10 spline coupler for a TH350 setup. You will need to cut the output shaft of the NV4500 in order to correctly mate the coupler to it. You will not need the coupler or to cut the output shaft of the NV4500 if your NP205 was originally mated to a TH400 because the TH400 versions have a 32-spline female input on their input shaft.

    You will need an Advance Adapters transfer case shifter mount. I couldn't get the stock link rod to work with the new shift lever position, so I needed to fabricate my own link rod out of spherical rod ends.

    Speaking of fabrication, you will need to fabricate an adapter that mates to the bottom of the Chrysler tailstock and to the transmission crossmember.

    Up front, you will need an Advance Adapters bellhousing. It will accept the stock clutch throwout fork. If you don't have one, the forks are still being made and you can source it from a GM dealer or from AA. You will also need a throwout fork boot from AA (I don't know why they didn't make the opening in the side of the bellhousing the same as on the bellhousing for the SM465... The stock GM boot is *far* superior to the crappy J@@p boot that AA uses).

    You will need a shift lever. The Chrysler and GM shifter stubs are different in shape and size, so the shift lever you get is dependent on which stub you choose. The Chrysler stub places the shifter farther forward than the GM stub and is probably a better choice for the '67-'72 GM 4x4. I think that the '73-up 4x4 would work better with the GM stub. I have a GM stub and '00 GM lever in my Blazer now. Along with the lever, you need the correct boot...

    You will need to fill and cut new holes in your transmission doghouse for the nerw shifter positions.

    The NV4500 is 1-5/16" longer than the SM465 (when using the Chrysler tailstock) or 1-3/8" longer (when using the AA tailstock). You will need to move the transmission and skid plate crossmembers and the transfer case mount back by either 1-5/16" or 1-3/8" to make them sit properly. The driveshafts will need to be altered accordingly.

    Let me know if you need any more information. One of these days, I will have pix and information about the swap. There are some pix of the mounting adapter that I fabricated and of the modified Dodge tailstock there.
     
  7. ntaj*ep

    ntaj*ep 1/2 ton status

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    I think thats almost too much info. Whew! Thanks for the low down, I think I will see what the avai. of the trans. is before I commit. If you do get the pictures up let me know. Thanks again.
     
  8. Supergas

    Supergas 1/2 ton status

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    I have a 93 TBI 350 & a 700R4 in my 71 that is great for a daily driver or offroad. The first gear is 3.06:1 & 4th gear is .70:1... I run 3.73:1 gear ratio & have all the grunt I need while having a real nice cruise RPM 2200. I had a friend of mine rebuild the trans (junkyard) and he did the entire thing including corvett servo, kevlar clutches etc etc. for $1500 incl a new torque converter. You should go to Phoenix Transmissions or Art Carr web sites & look at their offerings.
    A complete trans & converter for $1500.00 built to handle 450 lb ft of torque.... Don't let anyone tell you that these trannys are junk, they just need to be built right... Run a good cooler!!!!
     
  9. bassplayer4x4

    bassplayer4x4 Registered Member

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    well that sounds like alot of expense and hassle to replace something that is practically brand new with no real measurable gains....guess that idea is canned.
     
  10. jmeador74

    jmeador74 1/2 ton status

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    Well here is my 2 cents worth....

    I just put in a 700r4 into my truck with a 205...
    the tranny already had the shorter shaft and was already attached to the transfer. My solution to the problem of the tranny being 2 inches longer than my old sm 465 tranny was to move the engine forward 2 in on the frame rails. I had already noticed that on the side of the engine where the steer. box was there were already 2 holes drilled 2 in forward so I drilled six more holes moved the crossmember forward and sat the engine back down...

    some mods I had to do after moving the engine forward was that I had to get another bracket for the accellerator cable and throttle kickdown along with having to trim down my fan shroud as well. the other thing I had to do was lengthen my exhaust by 2in and that was pretty easy considering I just went down to the auto parts store and got some exh pipe connectors of the same size to give it the 2 in length and 4 clamps. thats about all the mods I think I had to do to get the engine to work again oh and shorten the fuel line a little... from the frame rail to the fuel pump.

    as far as the driveline was concerned all of it went right back in place... the transfer bolted right back in its spot where the crossmember originally was and the bracket along with the front and rear driveshafts all of it went right back in place.

    on the aspect of engine rpm... well I didn't have a tach before with my manual tranny, but let me say that it was pretty loud in the truck at about 70 mph. I estimate the rpm to have been around 4000- 4500. Now my rpms at 70 mph is 2100 and at 80 its around 2300-2500.

    after getting the tranny in I had probs with getting the throttle kickdown adjusted, so I strongly recommend getting that down by someone that is very competent.

    Just wanted to put my 2 cents worth into this one...
     

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