Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

A little electrical help??

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gjk5, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I'm having a problem here at the house, I put two GFCI's on the same circuit (didn't know they were same circuit) and now only the first one (?) in the circuit (powder room) works, the 2nd GFCI (downstair bath) is next in line and no power on it, and then a few more (in master bath) have no juice either. I took the 2nd GFCI out and just tested the bare wires and still seems like no juice. ANy ideas??


    I grounded out the downstair GFCI when testing it, is it possible to have actually burned out the wires between that and the powder GFCI??
     
  2. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    38,584
    Likes Received:
    266
    Location:
    Watch for the muzzleflash!
    Can't you just replace the last in line to a non gfi????You probably cooked it.But don't get me wrong I have no idea and get shocked daily....:haha: :haha: :haha:
    oh I see nevermind, did you recheck the wiring at the first outlet???
     
  3. broc944

    broc944 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Posts:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    I have to ask, is the first GFI tripped?
     
  4. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Nope, first gfi is working and I even took it out and confirmed which was the hot set coming in from the box and which was line out to next outlet.


    'fumes, my next step is the obvious one: pull out my best tool. VODKA!!
     
  5. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    38,584
    Likes Received:
    266
    Location:
    Watch for the muzzleflash!
    Now yer thinkin....:D
     
  6. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I have installed a LOT of GFI's and am amazed at how many come NFG from the factory. Did you test the line out side of the first GFI for voltage?
     
  7. nutsthename

    nutsthename 1/2 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Posts:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pageland, SC
    If the 2nd GFI is directly downline from the first, just reinstall the duplex and put it on the load side of the first GFI and you'll still ground fault protected. Doesn't sound like there's a need for the 2nd GFI anyway.
     
  8. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I did not, I just checked both plugs on it to confirm power, I can take it of and check the actual wires to confirm though.
     
  9. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Yeah, didn't realize it was the same circuit or I wouldn't have put two to begin with. But there is no power to the 2nd one, even on the bare wires with the gfi removed.
     
  10. nutsthename

    nutsthename 1/2 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Posts:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pageland, SC
    When hooking up the wires, are you hooking the incoming to the line side and the outgoing to the load side?
     
  11. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    yep.


    actually, to clarify, part of the problem is I can't tell which is load and which is line on #2 as neither one has power on it. did do this on the 1st in the series though.
     
  12. nutsthename

    nutsthename 1/2 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Posts:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pageland, SC
    Are the hot and neutrals seperated on the first GFI? If so, check for voltage on the load side of the first GFI, also verify the GFI is not tripped. If you don't have any voltage on the load side of the 1st GFI try the other one.
     
  13. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos
    Can't you just swap the two to determine if the first one inline is toast?
     
  14. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I hadn't considered it because I figured if the 1st is testing hot then it has to be passing it on down the series, is that not the case??


    Could my grounding out the 2nd one have burned out a wire in the wall?? Hell that would suck.
     
  15. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos
    I doubt it, most house wiring is pretty durable and I think it would take a few seconds of a short to burn a wire, especially if it's up to modern code. If you have a junction box somewhere in between them that had a marginal splice, that might've burned and broken the circuit.

    I don't know if the first one will definately pass current downline even if it has voltage on it's own receptacle. But if they're easy enough to change, it might be worth it for testing. My guess is that if you haven't done much physical work to the wiring, the problem is somewhere int he components.
     
  16. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    You need a wiggy. And one of these GFI Plug tester. These will help you troubleshoot most any receptacle problems. FWIW, it takes only a fraction of a second for a direct short to burn all the way through a 12 ga. wire. This is usually accompanied by a loud BFFFFT, or POP! and a dark carbon burn on your wall, and a funky smell in the air. We Sparky's call it "welding"....

    I'd remove that first GFI (kill the circuit first), separate the hot and neutral wires so you have: Two hots and two neutrals sticking out of the box. (Turn the circuit back on) Then use your new wiggy to see which of the hot wires (and its associated neutral) are actually hot. These go to the LINE terminals on the GFI, hot under the brass screw, and neutral under the silver screw. The hot and neutral that go to the next receptacle down the line got under the LOAD terminals.
     
  17. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    That is what it did, I touched the line to the ground and POP, stink, burnt spot on ground wire. I do have a similar tester to the "wiggy", the other link said product not found?

    That's what I did after the hot/ground short tripped GFI #1. I went back up, disconnected it, spread the wires, turned on the juice, tested to see what was hot and hooked it up to line and the remaining two to load. (crap, now you have me thinking, what if I did that backwards)

    Anyway, I'm gonna go home tonight and pull #1 altogether and replace with new GFI, and check load/line connections as we just discussed and see if that helps me.
     
  18. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Posts:
    14,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High velocity, Low altitude
    Looks like you need to read up here. You will find an answer to your problem, no doubt.
     
  19. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Good luck. Grand Junction has so much construction right now you can't get a friggin contractor of any sort to come out for weeks, and when they do you might as well lube up and shave your bung 'cause they're gonna give it to ya good. They have people waiting in line, they do need to haggle over my business.

    I had a guy come out to quote a new toilet flange. That's it, install a new flange, I had already cut out the subfloor and everything. $400.


    I am not paying $180 an hour plus materials for anything (unless it involves multiple hookers).
     
  20. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Posts:
    14,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High velocity, Low altitude
    I know what you mean. If I had put this :D there, it would have ruined the fun. Matt should set up a system to bill us, he walked me through a wiring problem a while back.
     

Share This Page