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a little help installing locker

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BranndonC, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    even though i can search and get help. i still dont know the terms so that doesnt help much. I am getting my powertrax no-slip lockers tomorrow for the front and rear axle, and preparing the truck for them, but i'm at a point that i dont know what to do next... lets start with the front. I think i can leave the ring gear in while i do it... so i dont think i need to remove these bolts. do i?
    [​IMG]

    and for the rear i think i do need to remove these bolts to get to it... can someone re-affirm this for me?
    [​IMG]

    here are 2 links that show pretty clearly what i need to do, but neither are on a 14FF or d60, so any input is appreaciated /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    This is what i think i have to do for the 14FF
    This is what i think i have to do for the d60
    also do i "have" to remove the tie rod?
    thanks
    Branndon /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
     
  2. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    Dana 60 front - assuming you can get the center pin out past the ring gear, you do not have to remove the bolts you have circled. You will have to pull at least one, if not both, of the axle shafts.

    14 bolt rear - you will have to remove the bolts shown, which will then let you remove the bearing caps (you will have to pull the axle shafts out also). Then you will mark the adjuster collars and back them off while counting how many turns (so you can reinstall them correctly). This will then let you remove the entire carrier (it will be loose so make sure it doesn't fall out!). Remove all of the ring gear bolts which will let you split the case in two.
     
  3. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You will have to pull at least one, if not both, of the axle shafts.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    i've never pulled the shafts up front before.. what do i have to remove to be able to do it?

    [ QUOTE ]
    which will then let you remove the bearing caps

    [/ QUOTE ]
    where are those? what do they look like?

    [ QUOTE ]
    mark the adjuster collars and back them off while counting how many turns

    [/ QUOTE ]
    mark where? whats an adjusting collar?


    the rest i understand. Thanks for the help
     
  4. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

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    to remove the axle shafts on the front 60 you have to remove the hubs and spindles.then slide out the shafts.on the rear the shafts come out by taking off the 8 bolts on the center of the hub and then sliding them out of the tube.gear oil will come out so be ready with rags or something to catch it with.you will have to remove both axle shafts on the rear to get the ring gear and center section out.the bearing caps are the things under the bolts you have circled.the center bolt on the rear diff is what keeps the adjusting sleeves from moving.the adjusting sleeves are under the bearing caps and you have to mark them to make sure the backlash on your gears is correct after installing the locker.make sure you use a torque wrench when you reinstall it.
     
  5. MTBLAZER89

    MTBLAZER89 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Yeah adjusting sleeves in the rear are the silver rings outside of the bolts you circled. You have to mark them EXACTLY where they are at so you can put them back. Mark them and count turns (write this down) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You are prolly gonna need a good impact to get all the ring gear bolts out for the rear. I think the locker you got is similar to the Detroit so this should help /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif IM me if ya need anything else
     
  6. K1Orion

    K1Orion 1/2 ton status

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    If you don't have one yet, I suggest you buy a Hayne's or Chiltons service manual. Most auto parts stores sell these for around $20?? and I'm willing to bet amazon.com has em They're great for stuff like this,and include wiring diagrams.

    Rear axle shafts on 14bff is pretty easy like somebody else said.

    I've never taken apart a 60(not cool enough to own 1 yet)but you will probably need to remove brake calipers and and rotors before taking the rest apart. Its like doing wheel bearings but then you take everything else apart too.
     
  7. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    For the front your going to need to remove the caliper, it uses a 1/4" allen headed bolt, be careful not to strip that out. Then take off the hub, should be two snap rings there, one on the stub shaft and one on the outer hub assembly. Next your going to need to get a spindle nut socket, Kragen sells em and I dont recall what size they are exactly. First take off the outer locking nut, I think I put those on with the impact so they may be pretty tight. they your going to take out a washer pay attention to how that went in because it needs to go in the same exact way it came out. next your going to need to take out the bearing preload nut, also pay attention to this and make sure when you put it back you dont put it on too loose or too tight because the bearings will be ruined. After you get the rotor/hub assembly off you need to take off the spindle/back plate. 6 bolts hold that on and after you take that off you can slide the axle right out. O yeah you can go on www.autozone.com to get exploded views and the instructions on how to take the axle shafts out.
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I hate to tell you this, but you really should get someone who knows how to disassemble an axle to do this for you or help you out at least or watch what you're doing. There is a lot of potential for screwup here if you don't know what you're doing.

    I'd be glad to help if you were in my area. I'm sure another CK5er can lend a helping hand.
     
  9. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I hate to tell you this, but you really should get someone who knows how to disassemble an axle to do this for you or help you out at least or watch what you're doing. There is a lot of potential for screwup here if you don't know what you're doing.

    I'd be glad to help if you were in my area. I'm sure another CK5er can lend a helping hand.

    [/ QUOTE ]I'm with Tim on this one.Pay someone who knows what they are doing.Put it back together wrong and you can ruin parts real quick.Good luck /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Tim, once again you have no idea what your talking about, so go away. The only way to learn how to do something is to just do it. That is how I learned- Just started taking things apart. And I had no help either. All it takes is a bit of patience and mechanical competence. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    I did a bit of looking at the Power Trax, and it looks to me like it can be installed without removing the carrier- That is asumming you can get the spiders, side gears and cross shaft out of there with the carrier still installed. (Carrier is what the ring gear is bolted too.) Looks like it just replaces the spiders/side gears and leaves the stock carrier. I've never had a D60 carrier apart, so I can't help ya much on that. I know that on a D44 the carrier has to come out to get the cross shaft out- (in your picture, the cross shaft is the shiny looking cylinder thing right about the "v" in the middle "remove these" caption.) It won't clear the ring gear with the ring gear still bolted to the carrier. Thus the ring gear needs to be removed from the carrier. I can tell you that the bolt heads you have circled in the picture are called the "carrier bearing cap bolts", the other parts are the "bearing caps". As far as removing the tie rod, On the D44 sometimes I could get pry the carrier out with the tie rod still on there, sometimes it just wouldn't clear. It's a good idea to remove it anyways. Not only incase the carrier won't come out, but because it makes it waaaaaaay easier to work in there without the thing in the way. It's only 2 nuts. /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif The article about the D35 should be exactly what you have to do for your 60, but it all hinges on if the cross shaft will clear the ring gear with the ring gear still on the carrier. On my old D44, it wouldn't so I had to remove the carrier, then the ring gear to get the spiders/side gears out. BTW, In the picture, the side gears are the gears just to the left and right of the cross shaft. These are what the axle shafts ride in. 35 splines in the case of the your D60. The spider gears are right above and below the crossshaft. The crossshaft rides in the spiders.

    As for the 14 bolt- They are sooo simple. Here is a reply I made about how to dissasemble a 14b carrier to weld the spiders. Alot of this will apply to your situation.


    Don't bother welding it per the tech article. The back lash that this creates will, over the long run, cause cracking and failure of the side and spider gears. I believe tRustyK5 can comment on this. He put alot of miles on a setup done as the tech article, and was not happy with the long term wear. If you're gonna weld it, I think the consenus is that welding the side gears, spiders, and cross shaft all into one piece is the best idea. I have done 10+ of these for club members and even sold a couple on another BB. So if you have any questions, I'm your man. Here's a few pictures and a bit of an explanation..

    Remove the axle shafts first...Ask me how many times I've done this and forgot to remove the axle shafts, and then couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the carrier out.. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    After you get the cover off the housing and you're lookin at the carrier and ring gear, you'll see two small bolts, one on either side of the carrier. These two bolts hold the clips in place, which in turn lock the side bearing adjusting nuts in place. These are the large round pieces with many small holes around thier circumference, just outboard from the carrier bearing races. What I do is take a scribe and mark the two holes that the prongs on the clips sit in on the adjusting nut. I also scribe a third mark between the two holes on the adjusting nut and onto the housing. Remove the carrier bearing cap bolts, don't bother with removing the two small bolts and the clips. Set them aside in the same orientation that they came off. Leaving the clips and bolts in the bearing cap helps with making sure that you get them back on in the same orientation they came off. No it's time to loosen the adjusting nut's. One turns clockwise, the other turns counter clockwise. What I do is loosen each nut exactly 1 rotation. Lining up the scribe mark on the nut's and the scribe mark on housing after one rotation. Check to see if the carrier will come out now. If it won't, loosen each nut 1 more turn. Check again. Repeat till the carrier will come out. Remember how many rotations you loosened the nuts, so you'll know how many rotations to tighten them when you put it back together. If you loosen it 2 turns, tighten it two turns, and make sure the two prongs on the clip go back into the holes on the adjusting nut that you marked ealier. Pull carrier out, make sure that the carrier bearing races don't fall out and take off accross the shop floor and hide under the tool box... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Set carrier on bench and remove all the ring gear bolts. Tap ring gear off of carrier with brass punch and hammer. Split carrier apart.

    This is what you will see after removing the ring gear and splitting the carrier halves apart...
    [​IMG]

    First thing you need to do is take the top side gear off, and tack the spider gears to the cross shaft where the welds are in this picture..Don't forget to flip it over and tack the other side as well. Make sure that the little cup shaped washers that sit betwee the spiders and the carrier remain there while you tack things. I have yet to pull a 14b carrier apart where all 4 of those washers were in good shape. Everyone has had atleast 1 cracked washer. Luckily I had spares. After you get it all tacked, put some welds appx. 1" long in the same places as the tacks. Just like the picture below. [​IMG]

    Now put the side gear back on top of the spiders, making sure that it meshs correctly with the spiders and is seated all the way down. Tack every place where the side gears meet the spiders. Remove the gear cluster thingy from the carrier half, flip it over, and set the side you just tacked back into the carrier. There are also large flat washers behind the side gears, make sure those stay in place as well. Repeat the same process with the other side gear. When you have everything tacked together, pull the "gear ball" out of the carrier and weld every place the spiders meet the side gears..Like these pictures...(In the background of the first picture, you can see the cup shaped washers that go behind the spiders, and the large flat washers that fit behind the side gears.)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    With 24 seperate welds holding it together, it won't come apart. Pretty much a mini spool for a 14b. I'm 99.9% sure that welded in this manner, It WILL NOT break. The entire carrier would have to explode for that to happen. If you don't like it after you weld it, you can either pull the gear ball out and replace it with a Detriot, or another set of spiders, side gears and cross shaft. No damage to the carrier at all. After you finish, be sure that you clean off all the boogers you can. They like to hang out on the splines in the side gears. A bladed screw driver and a small hammer work well to knock them off. Put everything back together. Don't freak out if the axle shafts dont slide in as loose as they pulled out. Almost everyone I've done I've had to tap thje axle shafts in with a hammer. Key word is tap. If you have to seriously hammer on it, something is wrong. Alot of heat went into welding things together, heat cause's expanding and contracting, thats why it could be a tight fit.

    Damn....This pretty much turned into a write-up on how to weld a 14b. haha! Hope that it helps.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Yeah, I don't know WTF I'm talking about. Not only do I own a lunchbox locker and I installed it myself, but mine was far more involved than this one, requring removal of the carriers, grinding of the ring gear, etc.

    If you don't know how to disassemble an axle and you re-assemble it incorrectly, it's going to cost you BIG bucks to get it repaired. Simply having someone around that knows how to pull the shafts out so that the locker can be installed, and how to properly re-assemble it afterwards is invalavle in this instance.

    You might think your tech article is easy to understand, but it's not to someone who has never done this before. The first time I took an axle apart, I had no clue what I was doing, but once I figured it out, ever since then I've thought it was a total joke. The best way to learn isn't reading words off a screen though, you've got to have someone show you how to do it in most cases.

    Like I said, I'd be glad to show him if I lived there, but I don't. I am sure someone lives nearby and would be glad to help him. A lunchbox locker is really easy to install, but if I'd never disassembled an axle before, I'd certainly have someone help me to avoid messing up something critical, especially if the carrier is going to be removed from the housing! Best case scenario, you'll ruin the locker with improper install. Worse case, you could lose the ring and pinion, carrier, and even the housing!

    If you do decide to do this yourself, go slow, follow all the directions exactly and if you have questions, post up here. It's really not that hard, it goes together the same way it comes apart, too, but it can be tricky at times and you really need to be sure you're doing it correctly.

    I never said don't tackle it yourself as it's really not that bad, but I just can't stress enough how important that it is to do this correctly.
     
  12. MTBLAZER89

    MTBLAZER89 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Not trying to start an argument, but when I bought my 14BFF it was the first time I had ever been inside one and I did my own gears and locker with just CK5 /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. jakeslim

    jakeslim 1/2 ton status

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    i changed gears without ever doing it and just a little ck5 help. Do it and learn from it. Most of us own k5's because we like to work on trucks or want to learn to work on trucks. Some of us are trained techs, other are weekend garage experts. If you have a question, just post it during the process and many here will help, no need to throw $$$ away letting some professional(goof) do it for you!
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Not trying to start an argument, but when I bought my 14BFF it was the first time I had ever been inside one and I did my own gears and locker with just CK5 /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not an expert either, I learned just from taking stuff apart and having friends around to help when I got hung up on something.

    Good luck on the project. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    thanks everyone... i'll see if any cali people can make it, if not i'll try it my self (even if someone came out, i'd still do most of it myself for the learning aspect of it)
     
  16. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Branndon, go ahead and try it. If you have ANY questions call me. I have a truck here I can tear down and take pictures if you are stumped.
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Branndon, go ahead and try it. If you have ANY questions call me. I have a truck here I can tear down and take pictures if you are stumped.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    See, exactly what I said. CK5ers always there to lend a helping hand. That's all ya need in case ya get stuck.

    An axle to me is like a puzzle with huge pieces. Only one way to put it together so it's not really that hard at all, just take your time.
     
  18. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Damn, if you weren't 463 miles away, I'd drive down tommorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  19. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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    Branndon,I'm in Canada untill the 16th.I'll then be working through to the 20th.I can come over after that if you havn't got it taken care of.Remind me to bring my torque wrench though.
    Just do it man...think positive.Oh ya,don't let that dog run away with any of the parts! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  20. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    brianne is going to help me do it saturday /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif so it *should* have it done by sunday, come over reguardless if you want when you get home and you can see whats been done. I open the instruction manual, it looks pretty straight forward...


    BTW Thanks for taking the good jack stands, the grinder and what ever else i coulda used..... asshat /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     

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