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Accel TBI

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Mastiff, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    What do you guys think of this kit?

    http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+310654&D=310654

    It wasn't around when I did my TBI conversion. It'd be kind of nice to have real software and support instead of going it alone with shareware like I'm doing now.

    I haven't found much detailed info though.
     
  2. rcamacho

    rcamacho 1/2 ton status

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    Wow, big budget item....
     
  3. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    I've read a few other places they work very well.
    But the price is a big turn off. Acell's MPFI is only a couple hundred more and comes with intake, dist, and everything else needed to run it.
    I looked at these TBI for my 4.3l V6 in my C10 that I rebuilt last summer. Twice the cost of the building the engine though...ouch.....
     
  4. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    If you've got fuel injection what the hell do you want to blow 2k on another system for? The power difference between a well tuned TBI and MPFI is negligeble. You can get your TBI set up real nice for any motor displacement and cam set up. Spend a few hundred bucks on an EBL set up and spend the rest of the $2k on the rest of your truck....or steak and beers!
     
  5. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I'm not seriously considering this right now, but I definitely would if I was starting over. I spent over $1K for a quasi turnkey kit that turned out totally not to be. Hacking ECM chips is a nightmare because there is no good source of info, just begging people on Thirdgen for tips and using shareware programs.

    If I ever lose my working .bin files I'll be totally hosed because they are irreplaceable one-off hacks that I did myself. Seems to me that there'd be a great market out there for user friendly .bin creation software for GM TBI. Don't know why nobody has tried yet (at least I haven't found it).
     
  6. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Emulation with an Ostrich is a breeze and this new EBL system is awesome. Self learning VE and totally user programmable, everything. I'm using EBL with Ostrich now and love it . You could use this on any size/type of motor. It's even capable of properly supporting dual Tbs or 8 injectors (I'm thinking of using dual 2 inj TBI Crossfire on a 383). It supports an idle bump for OBA or welders (idle bump speed programmable), shift light, NOS arming, wideband, IAT. Have a read up on it on thirdgen or on dynamicefi website.
     
  7. JEBSR

    JEBSR 1/2 ton status

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    Not real sure I like that setup. For that price I would buy a complete multi-port setup. They are usually more effecient and make a little more power.
     
  8. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I already have an ostrich, I'll check this out. My main complaint right now is that I just have this giant list of parameters with no explanation, and I really don't know how to set them properly. A good piece of software could help you sort through it all.
     
  9. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Yeah I know it can all be a bit confusing. Read through the 'tuning with EBL' thread on thirdgen. I've read it several times and still have to ask questions. Once you get into it it's not that hard to manage. I've still got A LOT to learn but it's very satifying to feel your results when you drive . The self learning fueling of EBL is geat but I don't think you could ever get a system that just does everything for you, there's too many variables.
     
  10. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I checked out the site and sent some questions in to RBob, but haven't heard back. It seems that they are really emphasizing the datalogging. That's cool, but what I'd realy kill for is a thorough explanation of what all the terms mean when you pull up a .bin editor. Does that come in the documentation? How do you come up with your first .bin for the EBL?

    Self tuning VE is absolutely cool. I suggested that idea to Moates over a year ago because it didn't seem like a person needed to be in the loop. With the ostrich, does the EBL software directly reprogram the VE in real time, or do you still need to manually export from the EBL program into TunerPro?

    The dream would be to have a custom .bin editor that helped you through the initial .bin generation. You know, it could ask the basics: how mahy cylinders, what flow rate injectors, do you have egr, do you have a VSS, knock sensor, etc. Someone could do this for existing GM ECM I think, if they wanted to bother. I'm not sure if some of the parameters of the factory setup are still mysteries or not.

    I bet someone could make some decent money if they wrote a polished program like that and it actually worked. How many people do you see begging for .bins?
     
  11. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    The stock 7747 ucu sucks compared to the speed and tunability of EBL. The EBL comes with a basic working .bin for a Camaro I believe. I had a pretty good .bin for my '7747 that I'd been working on with TunercatRT and Ostrich for some time. I sent that to Bob and he morphed it into an EBL .bin for me which was really cool.
    You idealy need a wide band O2 and IAT sensor though not essential it speeds up tuning immensely. Firstly open up TPrt and load the EBL.bin up to your Ostrich and fire up your motor, getting up to working temp. You open up the What's Up Display (WUD) and can see everything going on. This is where you can also monitor your wideband output (I used the Zeitronics ZT2). When you're up to temp you can click on VELearn. This will ask you (and suggest) what .bin to 'learn from'. This is the .bin currently running the engine(EBL.bin.mastif for example) (very important) then it will suggest a name for the 'learn to' .bin (ie the one you are about to make with newly 'learnt' fueling.).(this will be your original .bin's name with _NEW tagged on the end)
    Then you go for a drive. You'll be doing all this in forced open loop if you're tuning with WBo2 so it's best to have someone keeping an eye on your laptop for temps and AFR but mine have all been safe from the outset.
    Go for a long drive trying to cover as many different driving situations as possible to fill as much as possible of the VE table from low to high MAP and low to high RPM. I found I was hitting over 100% duty cycle on my injectors at 3200 so I've just raised my fuel pressure a bit to help this.
    When you have done a good VElearn session, go to TPrt and open the .bin you just created (EBL.mastif.bin_NEW for example) and upload that to your Ostrich.
    This is where I'm up to, datalogging and VElearning. You do this until the changes are slight then set the >bin back to run in closed loop where you can now do a fine tune by doing more VELearn sessions but using BLM's rather than WBo2 data.
    This is all very new to me but I'm slowly getting my head around it. I think if you went with EBL there's enough info spread between here, Thirdgen and BobR himself to get you through it.
    If you've got a non stock motor I personally think it's the best way to go.
     
  12. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Geez, that's gotta be my longest post ever! lol
     
  13. Mastiff

    Mastiff 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Thanks for the info. I have a wideband (ZT2) too, but it's still in the box after a year. I was planning on replacing my NB with it and using the simulated NB output on the ZT2 to run the ECM. Is that what you are doing? The other option is to have a shop install another hole (bung?) for the WB.

    IAT is intake air temp? Does that plug into the manifold someplace? I'm not sure how these new connections get made, since I already have my harness made up. Are the new connections made through the same big harness connector?

    I like that the EBL has an electric fan controller. Nice feature.

    Thanks for the help. Still nothing from Bob.
     
  14. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Better to get an extra bung welded in . It needs to be 20 + inches from the head at least I believe and use your original o2 as well.
    The IAT (inlet air temp) wires to the ecu. I have mine mounted to my aircleaner as I'm using the stock TBI induction system. There are different charts to use as to whether your using forced cold air, preheated cold air (like me) or open element (more tunability!).
    Yeah the fan thing is good. I wanted an idle bump for OBA. Spoke to Bob about it and he wrote it into the programme over night and made it as an update download. So now when I use my OBA I can have a false high idle (again, user programmable).
     

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