Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Ahhh!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by PsychoticDeadGuy, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. PsychoticDeadGuy

    PsychoticDeadGuy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    Posts:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfield, California
    Ok, WARNING!! Dont use 115v gasless welders on any suspension piece. It sucks. I was on my way home today when one of my shackles that i welded on came off. The weld on the frame is there and the weld on the shackle is there but there no longer one piece!! This sucks!! Now i need to go find a real gas welder!!

    Sorry, I just had to vent a little.
     
  2. readymix

    readymix 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Posts:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Murrieta, California
    The Flux Core usually gets deeper penetration that the GMAW given all other things are equal.
    If you are going to spring for a new welder, you might as well get one that is bigger than your current one. Not just a gas welder for that reason.
     
  3. botboy

    botboy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Posts:
    225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Delano, MN, USA
    Copied from a post on the Elle Ess Juan boards:

    "For quick reference for you guys for every .001" you need 1 amp. This is a general rule. It depends what type of weld you are performing...i.e. butt weld, lap weld etc.

    So for mathematically challenged (not you but just in general for someone reading this)…for your 3/16" material you have .1875*1000 ...you need ~180amp welder for correct penetration. "

    I'm guessing that he used some crappy little lincoln mig pak or chicago electric job to do something WAY out of its range of penetration. I went from a weld-pak 100 to a lincoln ranger with an LN-8 feeder & tweco gun, never looked back once.
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Good lord is that ever a BS rule of thumb. so for 1/2 plate we'd need 500 amps? :haha: :haha: :haha:


    I better tell the boss we need a 3000 amp machine to weld up the 3" plate stuff from now on then.

    Seriously, 187 amps for 3/16" is way overboard, 100-125 would do just fine. LOF and most other problems with small 110 volt welders are probably 90% operator problems. How many guys take the time to learn to weld correctly before buying a welder and trying to weld stuff up? Maybe 5%, the rest watch the video once if that and figure they'll 'pick it up as they go'.

    Rene
     
  5. PsychoticDeadGuy

    PsychoticDeadGuy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    Posts:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfield, California
    hey, i am a tutor at the local community college for welding...the welds had good penetration, it was the fact that the actual weld was porus and very brittle i guess. it is carcked in the middle of the bead, not at one of the joining surfaces.
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Porosity is caused by contaminents or lack of shielding. Again, nothing to blame the machine for. What type of weld was it? Lap, butt or?? Did you use any beveling or other weld prep? Pre-heat?

    Rene
     
  7. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Posts:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    I am going to call total BS on this. Piss poor welding is usually the result of a piss poor weldor, the the welder. (I am not flaming just tired of the only the best attitude)

    I have built my whole truck using nothing but a 70 amp 110V cambel hausfield (also known as one of the crappiest wire welders out there). I have never had a problem with a properly fitted piece breaking. I have actually ripped 3/16" plate before my welds failed (in tension). I have completely crushed tubes on my 2" .120 wall armor (shearing compression). I have driven on the same shackles I built in high school (4 years ago) and they are still in use on hossbaby50's truck. I am not saying that it is the best way to do things, just that it can work just fine. My bumpers are going on their 3rd year of abuse on another rig (pauly383). Figure out how to do it. I like to look at things more like a black smith and less like a snap on sales man. There has never been a tool but no job for it. There often is a job but no tool for it. Fire and iron is all you need.
     
  8. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    I have that same POS CH 70 amp machine here at home. I've never had a weld 'let go' and that includes 14 bolt spring perches both on my truck and a buddy's.

    I did upgrade to a Millermatic 135 recently, and it's definitely a much superior welding machine...but I had no problem with poor welds out of the little CH.

    Rene
     
  9. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Posts:
    13,966
    Likes Received:
    448
    Location:
    Marietta GA
    I not asking to be a dink, but... How old was the wire when you used it? I remember there was a warning about the flux going bad on the last spool I bought. I think it accualy had to do w/ moisture contamination once the shrink wrap was opened, not time, though. I know regular welding rod is sensitive to moisture as well. Maybe the flux didn't do its job??
     
  10. crazyhole812

    crazyhole812 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Posts:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    missouri
    yeah, me too, 3000 amp welders are cool. oh yeah who makes one hehehe
     
  11. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Posts:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Ya I had a milller 135 here for about a month. I got really spoiled on it too. It felt just as stroing (.030/.035 flux) as my neigboors miller 175 (.030 w/gas). The only difference was the duty cycle.
     
  12. guido666

    guido666 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    788
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Longmont, CO
    But are you welding 3" in one pass? That rule is probably for that. It would only make sense really, because as depth increases the amount of metal being brought to melting temperature increases. If you calculate in parasitic heat loss to environment and surrounding metal, you could probably even make a good case for logarithmic or exponential change in energy requirement. I think it's pretty harsh to just call the rule BS. It's no more BS then your rule. The rules were probably just intended for different audiences with different functions in mind.
     
  13. botboy

    botboy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Posts:
    225
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Delano, MN, USA
    Better to have too much than too little....until some numbnuts turns the knob all the way to the top... :haha:

    I quick grabbed that quote cause it was convenient, lincolns mig welding guide says it recommends approximately 165A for 3/16" carbon steel and 200A for 1/4" carbon steel, so 1A per .001 isn't all that far off for thinner materials...my 250A rig has no problem with proper penetration of 1/2" plate though, so I'm sure the rule of thumb is overcompensating some.


    Damn dude, 3" plate? I bet you would need damn near that many amps to do 3" in a single pass :D Not exactly sure how one would get a feeder that could actually keep up in the material deposition department though...and I bet that it could give everyone in a 20 mile range a sunburn when you do light up an arc....

    Prob is, most of the "100 amp" welders aren't an honest 100 amps, unless they're plugged into a 220V source and even then I think most need a little help. I used to have a lil lincoln weld-pak 100, complete junk, I even had several people (including experienced weldors) try it out to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong, even the best that they could crank out with it still looked like bird ****.


    I certainly won't disagree with you that operator problems are a major concern (especially since no experienced welder buys a tiny 110V welder, except maybe the miller maxstar), however, the difference in bead penetration, quality and arc stability between a weld-pak mig and a millermatic at the same feed rate and current setting is huge.

    Pics would be nice.
     
  14. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    We often use 3,4,5,and 6" plate for various fabrications. We certainly do not ever attempt to create a 3" fillet in a single pass.

    On 3" plate we often are required to do a 3/4" fillet which is 10 passes with .062" flux core or 6 passes with .094" flux core. Preheat is commonly 300 F through heat before welding begins...

    Even then the machine is rarely set at anything past 340 amps and 31 volts.

    Pre-heat is uber important, even on home stuff I'll often warm the parts up before welding.

    Rene
     

Share This Page