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America, the greatest nation ever?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by sled_dog, May 7, 2005.

?

Is America going to last forever?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    45.0%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    32.5%
  3. Maybe So

    9 vote(s)
    22.5%
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  1. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Alright here it goes....

    America... It often seems I hear and see people acting as if America is the greatest country ever, or that ever will be. I am left wondering where they get this notion. I love this country, I have freedom to do as I please for the most part and have oppurtunity to enjoy my life. I've often considered enlisting to fight for it. But America has no where near stood the test of time to call ourselves the greatest anything. Its like the arrogance of American sports teams that play against only themselves and then call themselves, WORLD CHAMPS(Baseball). Many ancient nations(and recent) have stood the test of time far longer than our meak 229 years. England has been around far longer than us. At one point they were "the most powerful", after our whole rebelion that went downhill. I guess thats where some of the arrogance comes from? I'm not the arrogant kind. I'm a pessimist and a realist, and a depressive so I always look on the dark side. To me, America is great, but the greatest ever?

    If there is anything I've learned(both in life and history class) its that EVERYTHING comes to an end. The idea that our nation could somehow supercede that fact is absurd to me.

    Discuss... I guess. Lets try and keep this civil.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2005
  2. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    Dude, leave it. its a legit discussion!
     
  3. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    I think its because we were the fastest country to ever achieve super power status, and the fact that we basically kicked germany's and japan's ass in world war II and then rebuilt them to what they are today,
     
  4. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    Cant really predict the future, there's a lot of uncertainty in today's world, BUT...

    While many things may/will change, the notion and mindset of America will never die. No enemy has ever stood our might and survived unscarred. Hundreds of nations and millions of people have benefited from our generosity. Baseball sucks anyway.

    America may not last "forever", nothing does. So what if the British have been around longer? Or the Germans? Longevity is not what makes a country great, but what is accomplished by it's people. It's contributions to culture, art and technology. I'd say we have them all beat. And don't give me any crap about Japanese cars or Italian artists or French wines or British tea.

    Right or wrong, I'd stand in front of any citizen of any other country or culture, and feel perfectly justifed in saying "I'm better than you, just because I'm an American. So kiss my ass and thank me for the world my ancestors saved twice in one century. Thank me for Chevy trucks. Thank me for cowboys. Thank me for the fall of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Tojo. And in conclusion, thank me for the 1911A1 .45ACP, you 9mm using Euro-fag."

    Just my thoughts on the matter.
     
  5. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    :saweet::haha::haha:
     
  6. Russell

    Russell LB7 Tahoe Status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    All good things must come to an end eventually. I am certain that the Roman citizens could never have imagined that their society would one day wind up in ruins. Their legacy may live on, but their society hasn't. All it would take to derail the US would be another dirty 30s. There isn't likely gonna be another war to save the economy next time. IMO, China will soon surpass the US in power and wealth, and the US will become second rate.

    Not to be an anti-American, but in all reality, the US didn't really do a lot of fighting in World War II, they didn't enter the war till late in the war, and by the time the US troops got to Britain, the whole thing was nearly over. "Best" thing Americans did was drop the nukes on Japan -- Several days after the cease-fire had been signed... Not saying the USA did nothing, but they hardly saved the world in World War II!

    Again -- My opinion. You may not agree with it, but I still say so ;)
     
  7. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    1941 to 1945? That's four years of war, brother. Hitler kicked it all off in '39. We lost alot of guys fighting Europe's way in WW1, and were hesitant to get involved again. Not alot of fighting in WW2? I'm sorry, but who exactly marched across the Pacific all the way to Okinawa? Who stormed Normandy with the Canadians and British? One beach each, three for the Yanks, if I remember right. Who took Monte Cassino? Who destoyed Germany from the air? The Brits were outequipped and undermanned until we joined the fight. It was B-17s, B-24s, Mustangs and P-47s that won the air war over Europe. It was the US Shermans that outnumbered Nazi tanks 20 to 1 that marched through France and up the Rhine, winning the Battle of the Bulge. It was Patton that beat Rommel (although Montgomery always thought different...). I assure you, that had we not joined the fight in Europe, Brits would be speaking German, and China would be a giant Japanese oilfield.

    The difference between us and the Romans is that we have never set out as conquerors, seeking empire. We have always done what we thought was best for everybody involved, usually at the request of a beleaugered and oppressed people. I understand that Vietnam was a mess, and that justifications for the current Iraq war are many faceted and often disputed, but at the end of the day, the US is a benevolent giant, and THAT, my friend, is why we are the Best.
     
  8. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    I don't know how too answer this one. As someone who is born and raised here in the USA, of corse I'm going too agree it's the greatest nation on earth. I belive it'll still be the greatest nation after I'm dead and gone.
     
  9. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    Oh, and before we get any replies to my comment about "not setting out as conquerors" around the Indians, let me just say that while I agree we shafted them, that was before we knew better.
     
  10. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    What ever!!
    You can not be serious. We did a butt load of fighting in WW2. Lets see how about the Pacific, China/Burma, North Africa, Sicaly/Italy, France, The Netherlands, Luxemburg, Belgium, Germany, The Atlantic, Ect, Ect, Ect.
    With out the U.S. Europe and The Sovite Union would have been mowed over by the Nazi's. Had We not supplied THe Soviets with all the wepons they wouldn't have held off the Nazis at Moscow and would have been done for. Same goes for The U.K. You could even say the same thing for Australia and New Zeland as far as Japan goes.
    Where did You get Your info that We droped the "bomb" on Japan after a cease fire was signed.
    Also if You want to get down to the nitty gritty We pretty much supplied Canada with it's arms as well. Tell Me the Canadians didn't ride in Higgins boats on to Juno beach before the climed into Jeeps, Sherman tanks and GMC Duece and halfs.
     
  11. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    is america the greatest nation?

    Well, europe may not be around today, had it not been for us.. Nazi germany would've extinguished france and great britain for sure. If it wasn't for us, the whole world would have been blighted by communism by now. stalin would've crushed hitler if we hadn't.

    We are a God ordained nation, created for a purpose. We are the only nation that decrees that citizens rights are given by God, and not the laws of man or whims of kings.

    The only way we'll fall is if our citizens quit believing in what we stand for, and are too lazy to fight for it.

    So what if our history is shorter than europe ? look at the world, dude. europe is a bloated welfare state, china and russia are totalitarian nightmares, there's nothing better than us, imperfect as we are. We're the only country that offers hope to it's citizens, and to the world. Judge a tree by the fruit it produces.. there's a lot of places I don't want to live in.

    I got into a discussion with a liberal leftist type once who told me that they were ok with the possibility of the US being taken over by either muslims or communists, because we've been too dominant for too long, and maybe it was time for our country to go the way of rome.. I told her that if SHE wanted to be frog marched into a concentration camp because her sense of fairness would prohibit defending her country, great. ..just stay out of my damn way while I shoot at the SOB's.

    She was convinced that living under a totalitarian regime would just be an inconvenience, and not the hell that's been described to me by the people that have lived through it. She thinks that having a republican president that prays to god is somehow equivalent to stalin's gulag. stupid, stupid, stupid.

    Believe what you want about our country.. but, if you want a life for yourself and future generations, I'd sure be hoping and praying it sticks around, 'cause the alternatives aren't pretty.

    Tom
     
  12. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    <<Not to be an anti-American, but in all reality, the US didn't really do a lot of fighting in World War II, they didn't enter the war till late in the war, and by the time the US troops got to Britain, the whole thing was nearly over. "Best" thing Americans did was drop the nukes on Japan -- Several days after the cease-fire had been signed... Not saying the USA did nothing, but they hardly saved the world in World War II!>>


    If it wasn't for our money, resources, and manpower, do you think the rest of the world could've stopped hitler, tojo, or stalin, for that matter?

    We might not have entered the war officially until pearl harbor, but we were supplying great britain well before then. As far as dropping nukes on japan being the "best thing" we did, it was only the final act... we had to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of men on those pacific islands, to back japan into the corner we had them in. We had them to where we either invade tokyo to finish them, or unleash the nukes.

    "didn't do a lot of fighting".. my ass.

    Tom
     
  13. txfiremank5

    txfiremank5 1/2 ton status

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    My Colt .45 ACP, and I, salute you, sir.

    That's funny stuff..
     
  14. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Oh, we're ok, but once you've attained dominance, you get lazy, and we're on a downward trend. It's going to be interesting when it hits bottom.

    I think we went from one extreme (closeminded strong people) to the other (openminded weak people) Of course there are to great men (openminded strong) and the sick (closeminded weak)

    People spend to much time beating down the ideas of another to realize the pathetic natire of thier own

    America: Gaudy/Beautiful, Victim/Vigilant, Honorable/Souless
     
  15. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    "Hi, I'm American, I'm crude, prideful, trend following, iconographic, and violent"
     
  16. txfiremank5

    txfiremank5 1/2 ton status

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    What?!

    I guess your version is Bob & Doug McKenzie were the ones who really went in there and took care of buisness... eh?

    :screwy:

    bd1.jpeg
     
  17. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Pretty sad. A young guy states his opinions. The rest of you jump on him and do your best to belittle him. Shame on you all........:mad: Way to come off like the proverbial "Ugly American".....

    Instead of going out of your way to be dicks, why not educate him in a civil manner?

    If this continues, I'm gonna lock and delete this thread. And don't feed me a line of BS that this has anything to do with where I live- if it was the other way around I would be defending you too.:deal:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2005
  18. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I hate to tell you this, Corey, but the ONLY 2 reasons that the Russian troops were able to hold off the Germans were:

    1. Hitler's decision to implement Operation Barbarossa in the fall as oopesed to the spring and

    2. that the Russians destroyed EVERYTHING as they retreated like the poorly equipped and trained force they were. Ever heard of the "scorched earth policy"?

    The fact that the Russians were only supplied with US arms has somehow slipped past my research. Care to back up your statements with some facts?
     
  19. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'm truly glad that your views are not shared by the majority of your countrymen. Arrogance of that magnitude makes me want to puke. We're all in it together, brother- get used to it.

    Just MY thoughts on the matter.....
     
  20. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Taken from here.


    Hehehe, the Canadian just got an Okie tag team :D

    Seriously, and back on topic of the original thought process; I think one has to look at this whole America thing with a perspective of looking at the country blueprint itself.

    America has been basically the same thing since it first started. We've had the same form of government since the inception, and that is what we should go off of. Sure, comparing us to Britain, France and some of those other European yahoos; we might come up short when we talk about how long we've been around. But those countries have had different types of governments, queens and kings and prime ministers and all kinds of gay, changing of the minds on how things should be BS. Around these parts, we've had senators and representives and presidents. Period. None of this changing in the midstream caca.

    In short, we were set up by a bunch of men who knew what they were doing.

    :D :D :D
     
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