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another question on the 1" zero rates

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by 55Willy, Jul 3, 2001.

  1. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    Okay it may have been said but are zero rates able to be used in the fronts also? I would like to add them all the way around if possible. Would the u-bolts have enough room for them and what about problems with the front shocks? Any feed back will be appreciated.

    <font color=red>It's not what you drive, but what drives you</font color=red>( Or is it what you work on,lol)
    <font color=orange> 1955 willy's on a 1977 blazer chassis </font color=orange>
     
  2. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Just out of curiosity (and probably ignorance too [​IMG]) Why not just use the 1" aluminum body lift pucks that ORD sells? It sounds like you are looking for an extra 1" of lift all around; that may be a cheaper and easier way to get it.

    Just an idea...

    -Greg72
     
  3. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I put these 'zero-rates' on some Skyjacker 8" springs I had once. Blzr4x4ngkid has these springs now on his Blazer. He sure seems to love the set up. He's also running 38" tires, too.

    As for the u-bolts and shocks, it depends on how much threads are exposed above the nuts now. If there are 1" or more threads sticking above the nuts, you can do the 'zero-rates' without changing u-bolts. The shocks also depend on how much travel you have left in them after you unbolt the tops or bottoms from the mounts and pull them all the way out.

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  4. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    These guys have it pretty much nailed, check the ubolts for length, and shocks, that'll tell you the answers for those questions. They are fine to use in the front. That's why they're "add-a-leaves", not blocks ;-)

    The body lift is another tuning tool, if you need 1" all around. We're trying to get a whole collection of ride height tuning tools together to make it possible to get everything sitting right (like you want it).

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    [image]http://offroaddesign.com/images/tracks1.jpg[/image]
    SW-ORD
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    Are they really add-a-leaves, or just blocks with centering bolt holes?

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  6. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    They are simply a 1 x 2.5 x 5 solid steel block with a hole drilled completely thru it. You take the center pin out of the spring pack and install the 'block' to the pack with a new center pin to hold the whole thing together. Read the link below:

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://coloradok5.com/ordaddaleafreview.shtml>http://coloradok5.com/ordaddaleafreview.shtml</A>

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  7. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I don't really think that's safe. Maybe for some folks, but I would certainly not use them. Seems no safer than a 1" block with dowels would be.

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  8. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I have used these on the front before. They are safer than no center pin thru the block/pack set up. If you want to talk more about the safety issues of this, take it up with Stephen. You gotta remember, Stephen wouldn't sell stuff like this if he didn't think it was safe. [​IMG]

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    Well maybe his definition of safe and my definition of safe are two distinctly different things.

    I like Stephen and his products, he does a great job, and he answers people's questions here, that's great, but I really dont think these so called "add-a-leafs" are a good idea.

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  10. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I think he got that idea from taking the rear 1" thick overload spring and cutting it down to a shorter length, like the 5" listed above. Think about that for a minute. That overload does nothing on the trails but limit the rear spring travel on the downward compression. If you cut the ends off, you will have more room to flex now. Its just a simple way of getting a safe 1" lift.

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  11. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    Think of it this way... You're adding a very short leaf to the spring pack. These "blocks" are physically bolted to the rest of the springs, via the center pin, to become an integral part of the spring pack. If the center pin broke, you'd have problems whether you had ORD's 1" add-a-leaf/block/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-it installed or not.

    If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style...
    [​IMG] <font color=green>Semper Maintenance!<font color=black>
     
  12. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    These guys pretty much nailed it, they're nothing different from a full length overload leaf as far as security is concerned. If you have problems with running a 5" long leaf (they really are a leaf by definition since they bolt into the pack) then where do you draw the line? Is a 10" long leaf safe? I don't think there can be any argument that a factory overload leaf is safe by any definition, so is it the length that makes the difference? Does a leaf have to be 24" or so long to be safe? Do they have to be clamped with the spring clamps? Most springs have a few lower leaves that aren't clamped at the tips and are only 6" or so long, depending on the design.

    Is thickness a problem? once again the overload is about an inch thick. is our 1/2" "zero-rate add-a-leaf" safe? many aftermarket front springs use bottom leaves that are between 3/8" and 1/2" thick and about 8" long. So does shortening the leaf make it any less safe?

    What can go wrong with a bottom leaf? The failure modes are going to be the same no matter what the length or thickness of the leaf. The only thing that can go wrong is if the ubolts come loose enough, the center pin will be the only thing holding the pack to the axle, and it will likely shear the center pin. No difference in that process with longer, shorter, thicker or thinner leaves.
    with a true block (does not use a center bolt to clamp it to the pack), the pin in the block can wiggle loose, and you have 2 places to disengage if it ever comes loose enough.

    Basically, the "zero-rate"s are safe by engineering reasoning, have been proven in actual vehicle use and abuse for many years (I was far from the first to dream up this idea) and we obviously have no problems offering them for our customers to use on their vehicles. If your personal preference is to avoid their use, that's fine. If there's sound reasoning for that preference, I don't mind hearing it, so if you have anything specific, trot it out! Without reasoning, we're left with opinions, and everyone has one of those.........

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    [image][/image]
    SW-ORD
     
  13. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    Very well said, Stephen!!! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    The thickness is what worries me. Using your reasoning, front blocks are safe. I've seen them used many times, beating the #@$% out of the truck, so they're safe, right? Nope, their thickness makes them prone to breaking, and if they should break, you'll lose most of your steering control.

    1/2" thick leaf would be okay. The length doesn't really both me, the bottom leaf on my springs is not very long at all. It's just the thickness that bothers me. Using my reasoning, I think that if a cast iron 1" lift block up front isn't safe, then neither would a 1" block with a hole in it for the centering bolt. Either way, you've still got a 1" thick hunk of something up front.

    Maybe I'm paranoid...but a 1" thick "block" by my definition up front just doesn't seem safe.

    Let me also tell you that I hope to soon be one of your customers and I admire your work on these trucks and designing products, this is just one of the situations where I don't agree with your reasoning. You're more of an expert than I ever will be on these subjects, just the idea scares me as I've seen what can happen with lift blocks breaking up front.

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  15. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I'm done with this subject. You can believe what you want and we will believe in what we want. Guess everybody has their own opinions anyways. [​IMG]

    <font color=red>I m so we Todd did.
    I m sofa king we Todd did.</font color=red>
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I really don't know what to think. I guess I just think differently. It's hard to disagree when they work sucessfully on many vehicles, but something tells me it's not a good idea.

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  17. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I don't think there's any issue with breaking a piece of 1" solid mild steel, it's far from a piece of cast iron in quality of the material.
    Try this line of reasoning: How about we use 2 pieces of 1/2" thick material, but maybe step them a little in length so they start looking like leaves in the spring pack, meaning the bottom is about 5" long and the next "leaf" up is a little longer. At that point we're OK, it's just 2 extra leaves in the springs right? As long as we don't make it so long that the steel starts flexing with the pack (mild steel is not built for this) we could weld the two bottom leaves togther, then they become a piece of 1"............
    The key is there is no stress on them but compressive stress and a VERY minor component of bending stress in some cases, and a bar of 1" mild steel isn't going to give in to that.

    The problem with going any taller on the front is increased leverage against cornering forces, so staying with the 1/2" or 1" is advisable. The side loads with a taller pack could cause problems with ubolts. We've run custom packs up to 2.5 or 2.7" tall with no problems, but I don't think I'd want to run a pack taller than that without going to a different ubolt arrangement.

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    [image][/image]
    SW-ORD
     
  18. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: another question on the 1\" zero rates

    I guess what you're saying sounds reassuring and that they're safe, but I still wouldn't use them on mine. I'm glad to see that you stand behind your product so completely.

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     

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