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Any way to stop a suicide? (seroius post)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by landsmasher, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I have had two friends commit suicide in the last 15 years. One we didn't see coming at all. He seemed happy enough. He had no money problems but he was definately a closet alchoholic drinking a quart of whiskey a day. That we didn't know till after his death.

    The other one we saw coming and tried to help to no avail. He was a heroine addict and we didn't know that till just before he died. He poured gasoline all over himself in his van and lit himself on fire...

    This latest one is actually telling me how he wants to do it. He drinks at least a 12 pack of beer every day after work and more on the weekends. He drives drunk every day and has had 3 DUIs. He has problems at work and feels that he is stuck in his going nowhere job at the age of 48 and he's single. Yesterday he was telling me that he's going to use a shotgun in the mouth and pull the trigger with his toe. He's starting to scare me and I don't know what to do about it. Contacting his family would be to no avail because he absolutely hates them. He's hyper to the point of pissing people off because they don't want to hear him babbling about his problems at work anymore and he dumps on me every day when he comes home from work. I live next door. I'm getting a little sick of his babbling too but I fear he is going to actually do it one day soon....

    Any advice on how I could help this guy? I've known him for over 20 years and I just don't know what to do if anything...

    Please folks,,, serious replies only on this one ok? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  2. fourwheelerjeff

    fourwheelerjeff 1/2 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    i would look for a suicide prevention or mental health place where you live, maybe social sevices, i am no expert but have heard when people tell you about their thinking of comitting suicide they are looking for help
     
  3. TXsizeK5

    TXsizeK5 1/2 ton status

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    try talking too, instead of only listening, invite him over for monday night football, or to a strip club or something? If he still talks about that kinda stuff, well maybe a clinic MIGHT help... but I doubt people will wanna go to a clinic, it seems embarrasing, I think he really needs some true friends or atleast get laid (?). BTW TAKE HIS GUNS! heh. But really, Take him somewhere where he could relieve some stress, paintball, wheelin', fishin, something.

    Alot of people ive seen who say this kinda stuff are attention whores. my ex's cousin cuts herself alot, but never seems to be able to kill herself (too bad, i know thats mean) and she kinda gloats in her state of pain/misery.
     
  4. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I've been listening till my ears fall off. I can't stand it anymore to the point of telling him to leave his work crap at work and please don't bring it to me. I have told him everything about the law that I know regarding work place stress and so forth. He doesn't seem to want to do anything about it and it just keeps going on and on. So he brings it home to me and I hear the same old crap every single day. Even on weekends.

    But yesterday when he told me he was going to kill himself I got worried. It's very hard to just sit and let it happen. Maybe I need to move... Huge expense just to get away from someone you have known for so long. Maybe I need counseling on how to deal with this. I'm at a loss here.

    I'll get ahold of someone in Suicide prevention and see if they can help me... Thanks...
     
  5. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    You definitely need a pro.

    You need a pro to help you cope, and also to help your neighbor. I think he needs help to help himself. Probably the first step would be AA for him. Alcohol is a depressant and lets be honest, his drinking is probably the source of 90% of his problems. I'd contact both AA and suicide prevention and get some quality advice.

    We have good intentions here, but obviously we know more about trucks and beer than suicide prevention.

    Rene
     
  6. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    Yeah, I'd say call in a professional... he might be pissed at you now for screwing up his plans and sticking your nose in his business, but it's the best thing to do and he'll prolly thank you for it later... my opinion
     
  7. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    I really don't know what to tell ya. Sounds like he needs to get out and have some fun and realize all the fun stuff thats out there. A good hobby or anything good to day dream about at work can make a person a lot happier. I don't think anyone will argue that nothing makes ya happier than falling in love, maybe drink in the bar and try and meet some women. Best of luck to you both.
     
  8. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    going out and having fun and all is a great idea... But I'd say hold off on it... he's obviously screwed up and needs help if he's seriously thinking about killing himself... Like I said before, I think someone needs to be called in and make the guy get the help he needs... Call the cops or somethin...

    Then when he's outta the hospital and on happy drugs, and forgives landsmasher for having him taken away, they can go to the bar and have a good time and give the guy some reason to be around /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  9. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Landsmasher,

    This may not be the best advice and you may not like and I actually have reservations about it, but it may provide help.........

    I'm sure you are familiar with the term "5150" and know what it means. It's actually a section of the Welfare and Institutions code and cut and dry is this, "any law enforcement or medical (there's one more, can't remember) who finds that a person is a danger to himself or others or is unable to provide for their safety can be held up to 72 hours for further evaluation."

    Basically call the cops and tell them what is going on, they come out, your friend says some things and they decide if a 5150 is in order and basically all they do is "detain" the subject and take them to wherever, usually is the local ER. They have to articulate on paper why they 5150'ed the subject, then at this first facility, there's usually a mental health/social worker of some kind that makes a further determination if the subject should be held for 72 hours. Then if they are, the subject is transported to a mental health facility where further evaluation is made. Most people get released from what I've seen, but they are provided with numbers and information.............

    I'm going to stop there, PM me if you want further information on the system, but now this is my personal opinion....

    I work in one of these facilities every so often (72 hour facility) and I do a lot of transports to court with people that are in the system. So I pretty much have a shitload of experience and have seen a lot.

    If this is the route you feel you must take, make sure you have thought this over real hard (this goes for everyone). These facilities are pretty much nuthouses and from what I have seen, the staff is borderline crazy themselves. They can be rough places.

    A lot of the patients are there cause they have fried their brains on drugs so bad that they are unable to properly care for themselves.

    Doing this to a friend is nothing to take too lightly. You may lose your friend, you may not.

    That's it Landsmasher, that's my two cents.
     
  10. arq

    arq 1/2 ton status

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    funny you mention this. I was just at a (premarriage)retreat this past weekend. the priest that was there actually was an alky for about 15 or so years, living on the street a few of those years. If you'd see him you wouldn't belive it. spoke the truth and didn't bs about anything. he just told it like it is. his family thought he was dead untill he just had enough and asked GOD for help or he was going to kill himself. try a priest or religious group nearby, ya never know GOD can do.

    ARQ.
     
  11. MOABDADC22

    MOABDADC22 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with Bubba except for............ [ QUOTE ]
    These facilities are pretty much nuthouses and from what I have seen, the staff is borderline crazy themselves.

    [/ QUOTE ] ALL the facilities that I have seen are very professional and genuinely concerned for the patient.
     
  12. fourwheelerjeff

    fourwheelerjeff 1/2 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    lots of good info in this post, especially from the law dudes /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    think about it this way, although he may never do anything to himself, what if he does; then you have to think about what you might have done to prevent it, you are in a hard spot and i wish you wisdom on this decision on what to do

    can you make the call without them telling who called the pro's in
     
  13. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    5150. When any person, as a result of mental disorder, is a danger
    to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace
    officer, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of
    an evaluation facility designated by the county, designated members
    of a mobile crisis team provided by Section 5651.7, or other
    professional person designated by the county may, upon probable
    cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody and place
    him or her in a facility designated by the county and approved by the
    State Department of Mental Health as a facility for 72-hour
    treatment and evaluation.
    Such facility shall require an application in writing stating the
    circumstances under which the person's condition was called to the
    attention of the officer, member of the attending staff, or
    professional person, and stating that the officer, member of the
    attending staff, or professional person has probable cause to believe
    that the person is, as a result of mental disorder, a danger to
    others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled. If the
    probable cause is based on the statement of a person other than the
    officer, member of the attending staff, or professional person, such
    person shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving a
    statement which he or she knows to be false.

    As Bubba said, it's a toss up whether or not a trip to the Emergency Psychiatric Services Dept. will turn the situation around. Sometimes it does, other times it doesn't. It will expose him to the system and they will offer him continued help which he can choose to take or not. It is a custodial situation and the person is not free to leave the facility until the mental health professionals determine the whether or not they need to stay the entire 72 hrs. It isn't a criminal arrest however. But, the person will have a record of being held for psychiatric evaluation for a long time. You know the person best. Most folks who talk about suicide are reaching out. Some have already made up their mind and are just procrastinating the inevitable. There is no sure fire way to prevent them from doing it, but you can sure try. Due to the last part of the 5150 section, make sure you are clear on their words and as much as you can, their intent.
     
  14. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I agree with Bubba except for............ These facilities are pretty much nuthouses and from what I have seen, the staff is borderline crazy themselves.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That comment is more about our 72 hr. facility. As for the extended care facilities, so far the good outweigh the bad..

    One other thing I forgot to mention was long term stays. If you don't know, there is a shortage of facilities in the state. We always have transports bringing clients back for court from Redding, LA, the Bay Area.
     
  15. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I called all the numbers in the phone book regarding mental health, suicide prevention ect... They didn't tell me anything that I could use really, and as a matter of fact, they asked if I wanted to schedual to meet with someone to get treatment for myself. I was however able to reach my friend (Bill) last night. He got kind of mad at me at first but then calmed down and we talked about it. I think I have him talked into seeking professional help using his insurance at work. I pulled out some pictures of past times we've had together and that kind of brought him around to my way of thinking. I believe he realizes that this is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

    Hobbies? He's been a hang glider pilot for well over 20 years. Skydiver for about 12 years. Black belt in karate. He plays multiple musical instruments and takes lessons once a week. He reads a lot and there's one of the problems. He just finished two books about people who commited suicide. I haven't read them and don't know much about the content.

    He was a lot calmer last night than I've seen him in months. Maybe I got through to him. Don't know for sure. But he keeps telling me that if he does it, it will be way up in the mountains by himself and everyone will just think Bill went away and didn't come back. Maybe the sudden calm is a warning. I don't know. That's why I looked for a pro yesterday but the free county services don't have any advice on how to tell if he is reaching out for help or really planning on doing it. Another waste of the tax payers money...

    Please keep in mind that I have already been through this twice in the last 15 years. One we didn't see coming and the other we tried to help but to no avail. I'm going to try to see him through this thing and see if I can sort of sway him towards getting some help through his company insurance. I think he could really use a vacation from that place. They treat him like crap there even though he is the most knowlegable employee they have. I have been trying to get him to complain to the big wigs about the way he is treated by his higher ups. He gets teased constantly with gay jokes kinda like what a bunch of guys do when drinking in the garage and such but I don't think it should be tolerated in the work place. He takes offense to it and when he reacts like that they just egg him on further.

    One of the things I thought about doing if he gets worse is to have a chat with the head honcho who I have known longer than Bill himself. I think I could reach him but I only want to do it if Bill starts falling further into a pity party. Roy, (the head honcho) is a very understanding guy but I don't believe he knows anything about what has been going on in the company regarding the way the other employees are treating Bill.

    Let's not forget that this is really something I don't need right now. I'm working very hard to improve my OWN life and don't need to babysit a grown man at this time. Thanks for all your input and I'll let ya know what happens in the future. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  16. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    [ QUOTE ]
    He was a lot calmer last night than I've seen him in months.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That may very well be a serious warning sign. Many people who are in crisis have personality swings, outbursts, etc. But, when they have resigned themselves to going through with the suicide, they get very calm and peaceful. That is why you always here people say "He seemed so happy and content. I never would've believed he was going to do it". I would keep a close eye on him and keep talking with any professional you can about it. Push him into seeing somebody who may be able to break the downhill slide.
     
  17. BigBurban350

    BigBurban350 1/2 ton status

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    I had an alcoholic roomate who was suicidal. Some people have a disease called depression, it is a real issue. These people sometimes drink to solve their problems, but it only makes it worse. The only thing you can do is be a friend, dont blame yourself for not being able to stop your friends from doing what they did, its all in their heads. Stop the drinking then maybe he can figure out why he feels the way he does.

    Smoke a phatty, marijuana is an anti-depressant.

    Doctors also prescribe anti-depressent drugs.
     
  18. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe the sudden calm is a warning

    [/ QUOTE ]

    like the saying goes.. calm before the storm.

    all you can do is step up and get in the way. never take the " I didn't think he was serious" approach cause you will find out he was serious after it is too late.

    and get the family involved. these people tend to hide out and be depressed on thier own and only talk to a few people about what they are planning or atleast thinking about doing.


    I can also add, been there done that to this topic.
    And I have to thank Mandy(chevyhuny) for seeing it as a problem and stepping up for me. Mine was depression caused and fueled by alcohol. I had just lost my job and turned 21 and started drinking..heavly.

    that was over 2 years ago and I will say I couldn't be happier with where I am now. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif


    -Jeremy
     
  19. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    Glad you're with us today, even though I didn't get to buy your Jimmy /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    thanks Carl, aren't you do for a new ride anyways???LOL
     

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