Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Anyone advance timing to get better lowend power?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by DPI, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    A machinist budd of mine suggested installing a new timing chain and gear set. He suggested Cloyes kit that has the advancement/retard built into the gears.
    This is the roller kit I am going with. Summit number CLO-9-1100.
    [​IMG]

    Also got a cool aluminum cover -
    [​IMG]
    This will be used on my 90K5 with the factory tbi.

    He said to try the 4 degrees advancement and the should help with the bogging down off of idle.

    Anyone have experience with this? He said it should really boost lower end, but at the sacrifice of gas mileage.
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Comp Cams often does this from the factory. Most have 4 degrees built into them(basically 4* advanced when installed straight up). Can't remember where we installed the last camshaft we did, but it was far beyond stock so I couldn't say either way.
     
  3. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Posts:
    13,084
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Mobile, Al.
    Are you game for a cam change or are you trying to keep the mods more external?
     
  4. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Posts:
    17,577
    Likes Received:
    943
    Location:
    Massachussetts
    didnt work for me...

    I tried advancing the timing by using the "other" keyway in the 4 degree advance position,in both motors I did it that way,they pinged pretty badly,even with the egr valve working.,and I ended up pulling the cover and putting it back to the "normal" keyway setting....this was with a stock cam though,your results may vary..it did boost low end power slightly,but I was afraid the pinging would wreck the pistons and do the motor harm... :crazy:
     
  5. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    Didn't really want to dig into the motor. So mostly external...
     
  6. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    Was this on a computer controlled motor?
     
  7. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Posts:
    17,577
    Likes Received:
    943
    Location:
    Massachussetts
    nope!

    No,both were carbed (4 barrell Edelbrock performer carbs)...it might work out better on a EFI motor with a knock sensor--either that or it might retard the timing so much to keep it from pinging,it might offset any gain from the cam being advanced...many times fiddling with stuff like this,the only way to find out is to do it,and see what happens..every motor is different,the cam grind,altitude,compression ratio...lots of things can affect them..no easy answers.. :crazy:
     
  8. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,982
    Likes Received:
    190
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Always a tradeoff, I'd suspect "straight up" is the best compromise, otherwise you trade bottom end for top end, or vise versa.
     
  9. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    Yep, your right. I am more concerned about low end torque than upper end horse power at this point. I guess I'm getting old...
     
  10. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Posts:
    13,084
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Mobile, Al.
    More gear :whistle:
     
  11. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    Your right, but that's for the new rig...

    Let's see -
    Atlas II 4.3
    Rockwell 6.72
    700R4 3.06

    = More Gear! :D
     
  12. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    did you try better fuel? I suspect this would be far worse in a Computer Controlled vehicle. The knock sensor would detect it and retard the timing so much it would run like crap.
     
  13. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    Yeah, the last event I ran, i was using 93 octane. I am scared to know what it would have been like with 87...
     
  14. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Just installing a new timing set can boost performance. Stock chains stretch, never torn down a small block that didn't have a stretched chain. A nice Double roller could gain you some HP and maybe torque, depends how stretched it is.
     
  15. Frickenwirthles

    Frickenwirthles Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Idaho
    I've talked to my machine shop about the exact same thing. It is a very reputable shop, and he said he thinks it's kinda worthless, and never runs right.
     
  16. Storm Trooper

    Storm Trooper 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2000
    Posts:
    4,640
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dillon Colorado, Hang'in in the mountains. Renting
    I did it on my 89 Ford van and it really helps.
    Like they said, all motors are different but it does work on the Ford.
    In the early 70's they retarded the timing chain sets to help with emmissions (easy way out) so if you change it and need to do the test, it may make you fail. Hard to say which way to go.
     
  17. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Posts:
    5,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    **PLUMBING THE WORLD**

    Ive heard that also can cause overheating problems, if the timing is off, in the ford motors. :crazy:
     
  18. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK
    I pulled the timing chain cover last night. I measured about 5/8" slack in the chain from side to side. I talked to my machinist buddy about it. He said that's about average that he sees. He said it would be really bad if the chain was hitting the cover - and is was not.

    He said the 5/8" amount of slack could cause up to 15 degrees of retarding to the timing...

    Anyway, I have got to get a puller to pull the lower crank sprocket off and I will be ready to go with the install...
     
  19. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Posts:
    17,577
    Likes Received:
    943
    Location:
    Massachussetts
    Puller is the right way---but...

    I had to do a timing chain and gears in a parking lot during bad weather once,and lacked all the right tools--I borrowed a harmonic balancer puller,but it only worked on the harmonic balancer--I could not pull off the crank gear with it!--- :mad:

    Then a guy wandered by and asked what I was doing--turned out he was a GM mechanic (retired) and he showed me a trick he used a few times--he took a cold chisel and put it between the teeth right above the keyway,and gave it a sharp smack with my hammer,and it split it like peanut brittle!--I was then able to work it off with a pair of screwdrivers with little effort!...he saved me a lot of time and aggravation,by not having to search for a puller I could borrow...I know its a bit "butcher",but it worked for me .. :crazy:
     
  20. DPI

    DPI 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Posts:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the Burbs close to Tulsa, OK

    If I knew that last night when I was jackin' around with it, I would have used that little trick... I'm picking up a puller on the way home tonight so hopefully I won't need the chisel.
     

Share This Page