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Anyone ever deal with AGR???

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 78k20, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. 78k20

    78k20 Registered Member

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    /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif My question is has anyone dealt with AGR before-WillysWanter-I think I remember something about you have used a pump from them before-anyone else? Basically, how did they treat you, did you have any trouble with their products, and if so, were you satisfied with the customer service they provided??? I'd like to hear from those with experience before I go on with "the next step" if you will.
    If you've had some experience's that you'd rather not post here, please feel free to email me at the address in my profile, I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks a bunch,

    Mike
     
  2. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    I have never dealt with AGR. But I have dealt with West Texas Offroad, and if you are looking for help with steering setup, WTO is the best hands down.
    West Texas Offroad Link
    Matt helped my cousin and I get Mudzilla handling like a dream. For more info on Mudzilla, see link below.
     
  3. 78k20

    78k20 Registered Member

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    Jeff-

    Thanks for the info, and yes, I have heard of WTO-oh, and you guys have done a great job with MudZilla! As for the steering, I'm a little late on that-already done-well, still in the "ironing the bugs out" stage. Seems every part I have received has been defective, and I've replaced everything at least once now. They've been great about exchanging, but I'm really getting frustrated putting it all together, bleeding it out, firing it up, finding another leak, then tearing it all apart again-four times over now, and I'm loosing my patience. Doing all the work myself so I'm not out money for it, but man, my time is worth something, and I really don't have much of it-especially to fix, and re-fix things that are defective when I get them. I've been out for 3 months now on my daily driver, stuck borrowing a vehicle for my wife to drive, and about to go through the roof. Finally had a chance to tear it apart and put it back together tonight again, and have now found the new pump housing is leaking-a tiny pinhole weld job that wasn't done good enough to hold. And of course, due to the location, it has to be completely torn down again to fix. Not sure what to do about this when I call them up again tomorrow-I've been on the phone for a second gearbox, third gearbox, second pump, and now the pump housing (running remote reservoir). Sorry to ramble, just extremely frustrated at this point, and not sure how to handle this "professionally", without tearing someone apart. With the money I spent the first go around, I should have just went with the entire RockRam system. Had I have known the truck would have been down this long, I could have had the knuckles milled and gone crossover. May just send back this last new gearbox and demand they exchange it for the rockram. Don't now what to do at this point-that RedLine steering fluid ain't cheap either, at $9.00 a bottle, and gone through 7 of them now I think???

    Man, I know I shouldn't have mentioned this here, but the more I think about it, the more upset I get-down right pissed actually! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    Again, sorry to ramble, and Thanks for the info,

    Best of Luck

    Mike
     
  4. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    I'm interested in what exactly the problems you have are. I am just about to order the super box SB1 and the super pump. I just haven't decided where to order it from yet.
     
  5. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I had a brand new AGR box and it leaked right out of the box, the worst customer service I have ever seen by any company, I still can't believe their still in business.
     
  6. j20m715

    j20m715 1/2 ton status

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    I bought a complete rock ram system when it first came out.
    I delt with Jeff there (got areal good deal on it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
    It was one of the very first to be sold to the public.
    They are local to me so I went & picked it up.
    I had it on a blazer (6in lift, 35's & a dana 60).
    I didnt even use the ram, the pump & box were great.
    I soon sold the blazer but kept the agr stuff.
    I used it very little but I was very pleased with it.

    I may be wrong but I think agr & painless wiring are together now.
    If thats the case then they have no customer service anymore.

    Jeff & I think his Dad are now the psc.
    I used it very little but I has very pleased with it.

    I havent bought anything from wto but I have heard nothing but good things about them.

    Long story short I would use Psc or Wto

    Good luck & keep us posted as to what you choose.
     
  7. 78k20

    78k20 Registered Member

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    DesertRat-

    The first go-round, I went with the SB2 box, superpump and remote reservoir, along with inline filter. To run the remote reservoir, you replace the stock pump housing with a different tin/aluminum type that has a 3/4" return line, and the standard pressure side fitting that screws into the back.

    The first gearbox, after bleeding out exactly as described in their manual, was not centered properly. With the front end off the ground, when I fired the truck up, the steering wheel immediately turned to full-lock to the right. I steered it back left, then went on full range to each side to complete the bleeding. On the test drive, it pulled hard to the right, and would turn itself-in fact, it almost required some good effort on my part to keep it strait, and was difficult to turn left. After a short trip around the block, I pulled it in the driveway and found it had blown the seals out both the front and back of the unit. Called them up and they said to send it back, they'd either fix it, or send me a new one. Put the new one one, same deal, only to the left. Next box was/seems to be OK.

    Now for the pump-not sure if the pump was bad originally too, as fluid was everywhere when it blew out the gearbox, or if the problem with the gearbox caused the pump to go bad. Either way, it was leaking badly, and finally found it to come from the pulley shaft seal. Called them up, they said to return it, they's send me a new one. I said well, just send me a new one now, and I'll return this one when I get a chance to take it off. Well, did that tonight, replaced with the new pump and this one leaks worse than anything!

    This time, it's the tin/aluminum pump housing deal-it's leaking around the 3/4" fitting where it was welded to the housing itself-either a bad weld job on there, or a small hairline crack in the material. Eitherway, it's sucking so much air when you turn the key on that the fluid goes instantly foamy, then once you shut it off, it drains out constantly-in fact, the entire system is empty now-less than 3 hours after I got it all back together.

    Oh, and as for the remote reservoir-they "assured" me I would have enough 3/4" hose to run from anywhere on the driver side of the truck to the pump itself. Well, not so-I had about 20" total, and the way you have to route it, I needed 6" more. When I called about that too, they said well, you should have received 24", but I guess somebody didn't measure properly. "Send it back, we'll get the right length to you" was the response. I said don't bother, I'll just go to the local hydraulics shop and get it myself.

    Keep in mind, each return item costs about $20-25 for FedEx, and each bottle of RedLine is $9.00. Have they offered to give me any fluid to replace what was lost??? No, against policy, but oh yes, they do have it for sale!

    Not sure what to do at this point. Just totally irritated with the whole ordeal. I am glad though that someone had a good experience with the RockRam-from everything I've heard about it, it is "supposed" to be a good system. I guess that all depends though on if you get "good working" parts, or defects, like I have received thus far.

    Thanks to everyone though for their replies, and Best of Luck,

    Mike
     
  8. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    Mike,
    You have way more patience than I would in your situation. After all that, I would be sending all the AGR stuff back and demanding a refund. I can understand a mistake every now and then, but in the amount you describe, that is truly MONUMENTAL /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I agree with Steve, I don't know how they can stay in business /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif.
     
  9. blk87K5

    blk87K5 1/2 ton status

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    For my piece of mind and clarification:

    Who do you think has wronged you? AGR or WTO?
     
  10. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    he is talking about AGR.
    he should be buying from WTO.. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    and i know i will be.
    Matt is a stand up guy from what i hear.
    Grant
     
  11. 78k20

    78k20 Registered Member

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    Grant is correct, I have never called, nor done any business with WTO-and that is where "I" may have wronged myself. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Everything I hear about them has been good, like ORD-never heard anything bad about them either, and after dealing with them, I would say they are excellent folks to do business with.

    I don't know that AGR has actually "wronged" me per-se, just that like Jeff said, when you order something, you do expect it to be what you ordered, and in proper working condition. I can understand a defective piece here and there, but EVERYTHING??? Man, you start to wonder. Like I said, they've been very helpful and courteous on the phone, and have been more than happy to exchange my parts out for new ones, but it's such a huge hassle, and I've had to pay the return shipping fees up until this point. And, like I said before, time is of the essence, and I just don't have it! Thank God my parents live close by, and have an extra vehicle that they never drive, for which they have loaned us. Still, even though they are my parents, I hate being indebted to people if you know what I mean.

    As for this latest episode, I'll probably have to wait till early next week. I either have to call them between 5-6am on my way to work, in between dead spots for the cell phone, or leave work early to reach them. I'm not sure exactly what they'll want to do this time around. Like Jeff said, I'm about ready to strip it all off the truck, ship it back and take a large refund, then go to WTO for the parts.

    Again, very sorry to ramble on, and on... Thanks for listening though, I do appreciate the comments and suggestions.

    Best of Luck,

    Mike
     
  12. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm interested in what exactly the problems you have are. I am just about to order the super box SB1 and the super pump. I just haven't decided where to order it from yet.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Desert Rat,
    I would <font color="red"> highly </font> recommend that you contact West Texas Offroad for your steering needs. Matt is a member here (TheLakeRat is his forum handle), and he is an expert at setting up hydro assist steering, and rebuilding pumps and steering gearboxes. He has saved me a ton of work on the steering setup on Mudzilla, and helped solve some problems for us to boot. Absolutely top notch /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif. I can't say enough good about him and his business /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif.
     
  13. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    I was debating on the hydro-assist. To start, I was simply going to buy a 2WD box and a better pump. I went to their site, which could use a re-design to be truthful, but didn't see that they sold ready to ship upgraded pumps and steering boxes. That was the attraction for AGR for me. I can simply order up the steering box and pump I need. No need to ship my POS box to them. But, I am open to suggestion.
     
  14. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    Don't just go by their website. This is one of those must call situations. I am not positive, but I think you can exchange your pump and box for already rebuilt ones from Matt at WTO if he has some on hand. I was primarily posting the link so you could get their contact info. Matt is very eager to work with his customers and get them what they need.

    I have heard so much bad stuff about AGR (posted on all the major message boards), that, even if you did have to wait for Matt to rebuild your stuff, it would still be less waiting than you will have with AGR to finally get you something that works.
     
  15. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The first gearbox, after bleeding out exactly as described in their manual, was not centered properly. With the front end off the ground, when I fired the truck up, the steering wheel immediately turned to full-lock to the right

    [/ QUOTE ]

    that is what happens when the lines are switched and the pump pressure is running into the return port of the box
    are you certain you had them plumbed correct?
    I nearly broke my arm when I had them wrong
     
  16. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    What exactly does AGR do to their boxes and pumps to make them "super"? I read their claims on the website, can WTO do the exact same thing? Is there a huge advantage to having one rebuilt over just buying a stock 2WD box and pump? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  17. 78k20

    78k20 Registered Member

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    MJ-
    Positive. I don't have a hydraulic ram on here-yet anyway, so there is no way you can interchange them-different size fittings on the pressure side vs. return side at the gearbox. Besides, the return line is a 3/8" hose running to my filter, then the remote reservoir, from there, it's a 3/4" hose returning to the pump itself-again, not possible to confuse these sizes, but I do understand what you mean if I did have the ram-have seen others mix them up and have the problem you mention.

    As for the web sites, it seems you really can't take any of them for what you see-take 4xIron for instance-still shows them in "moving" mode and not taking orders at this time. From what I understand, they have moved, and are fully operational. But, Back to AGR-many items they carry are not listed, or not pictured, simply cannot be found on their site. Calling however, and it seems as if they have everything.

    As for the gearbox, I had looked at WTO, and also thought that I'd have to have mine sent to them for rebuild, then wait. One of the reasons I went with AGR-could buy it outright and have it within a few days. Also, from their site, that "3rd bearing on the input shaft" gave me the "warm fuzzy" feeling that it simply MUST be stronger-more bearings=better right, just has to be so huh??? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Also, their pumps are supposedly rated at 1800+ psi, where stock is up to 1400, if you're lucky. Flow rates are supposed to be in the 4.5-5 gpm range, where stock is 2.8 at most (supposedly). Again, going with the "more is better" philosophy, I just assumed that the entire system would be the way to go. Also, with Four Wheeler, Potent Rodent, and others listing them in reviews and write-ups, I figured I couldn't go wrong.

    On the second or third setup, it seemed to work pretty good, except for the little extra "noise" from the air sucking in, and the leak so bad. I'm sure once I get all good working parts, it will be a good system, but getting there seems to be the problem. Have to wait till monday to try and get ahold of them though-they NEVER answer email, and the 2 hour time difference is a bit of a challenge when you can't call from work /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    I'm glad to hear though that I'm not the only one who has had trouble with them-nice that someone mentioned they'd seen problems on other sites as well-kind of takes a little of the "sting" out of it anyway. Still /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif though! And, knowing what I know now, for you looking to build a system, I'd also suggest going with WTO, even if it does require a little more wait-time. I think I'd have only had to do this once, and have been on the road enjoying my truck again, rather than down for nearly 3 months now. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    Anyway, Thanks again, Best of Luck,

    Mike

    -sorry for so many looooonngggggg posts /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
     
  18. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What exactly does AGR do to their boxes and pumps to make them "super"? I read their claims on the website, can WTO do the exact same thing?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    What AGR claims, and what they actually do, are apparently two different things, as you can note in the above experience, so I can't comment on that any further. As far as West Texas Offroad, I am not sure of the mods Matt does, but I do know his stuff works when you get it, and works good.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Is there a huge advantage to having one rebuilt over just buying a stock 2WD box and pump? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Matt can answer this better than I can. Gather all the information and pricing on the AGR stuff, then call Matt and ask him. It is your time and money, if you would rather go with AGR, it is up to you. I am just trying to help by sharing with you the good customer service I have received from West Texas Offroad, and the fact that my monster truck, Mudzilla, steers great with 48" tall tractor tires on 2 1/2 ton axles with WTO steering parts /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif.
     
  19. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Tried calling WTO using the number on their order form. I got a phone co. recording saying the call can't be completed.

    UPDATE: Used the number on their Contact Us page, got through there. Neeeeeeevermind......
     
  20. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Tried calling WTO using the number on their order form. I got a phone co. recording saying the call can't be completed.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Use this number;
    325-651-5010
     

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