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Anyone ever use nitrogen in a power tank?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by fwdjunky, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. fwdjunky

    fwdjunky 1/2 ton status

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    I as because I recently came across a screaming good deal on 4 20lb aluminum nitrogen cylinders. Screaming good as in free. I can have the valves changed and fill them with CO2 (already talked to a welding supply company about it) for $35.00 each. I was wondering why not just use N2? Maybe the refill price for N2 is much higher, I haven't checked that, but I can't think of any reason N2 wouldn't work as well as CO2. Any ideas?
     
  2. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    I would use N2, it doesnt freeze up like CO2 does, and you can pick up an adjustable regulator on e-bay for a decent price liek i did.
     
  3. sweetk30

    sweetk30 professional hooker Premium Member

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    also its moisture free and no oxygen to corode parts. thay use it to fill tires now. cause thay dont heat up hardly at all.
     
  4. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    N works great for filling tires on race cars as it doesn't change pressure with change in temperature as much as air or CO2 does. That's good for lap to lap consistancy.

    The main advantage of CO2 over compressed air or compressed N2 is that CO2 stores in the tank as a liquid, the others store as a gas. So for the same size tank you get more gas volume from CO2.
     
  5. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    what he said... Im not sure there would be enough n2 in a small tank to fill tires toooo many times. I only use a 10lb tank with co2 and it airs up my 39.5s lots of times.

    j
     
  6. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I have 10 lb bottles.
    At $35 to fill up one of your 20 lb bottles thats gonna get expensive. I'd start looking into OBA.
    My 10 lb bottles cost $11.50 each, so around $23 to get the two filled up.
    When one guys busts a 42" tire off the bead, you can pretty much kiss your 10lb tank goodbye with all the air you'll be trying to pop the tire back on the bead with.
    Power tanks really don't last too long, If i run my air ratchet off it, it probably has 1/4 tank left when i get done changing 4 tires.
     
  7. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    I have a AC/DC converter and run an electric impact for just that reason. My CO2 tank is for tires only.

    Another reason for CO2 over N2 is price. CO2 is just cheaper.
     
  8. fwdjunky

    fwdjunky 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks guys. I'm thinking that two bottles on the truck should handle any conceivable situation and under "normal" usage (nothing but running an ARB and airing up 39.5's) would last 2 runs per bottle. If I do 10 runs a year that's 5 fill ups, plus toss in an extra 2 to seat blown beads etc. At $35 a fill up that's $245 a year, plus cost of regulator....Hmmm. Only two years to pay for OBA. Less considering I have 2 york's and a 3 gallon tank already laying around... Damn. I'd really like to avoid the weight, cost and hassle of fabbing brackets to install an OBA system but maybe its time to start cutting and welding. I think I'll do the power tank set up as well, just as back up and to help seat 16.5's if nothing else. Rich
     
  9. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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  10. fwdjunky

    fwdjunky 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, I'll bite. What is it? Looks like a starter motor driven York?
     
  11. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Won't that starter motor over heat in short oder? Figured a duty cycle for it yet?
     
  12. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Gear reduction starter motor driven Chrysler V-2 A/C pump. 11 cubic inch displacement, which is 1 cubic inch more than the biggest York. It's an experiment. When the starter fails I'll be out $20 and then I'll know the motor's life span.
    I have two conflicting theories about the lifespan of the motor.
    1) It's gear reduced motor, shouldn't get hot b/c there's no real load.
    2) With no load the current will be greater than with a load.

    We'll see which prevails. If/when it fails I'll buy a continuous duty (winch/hydro pump) motor.

    Photo documentation of the project has been done. I've designed it such that a guy with only a few tools could copy it. Idea is to submit it to a mag for an article. Was going to be 4x4 Builder until my contact quit working for them. Project is on hold until I have the place to stuff it under the truck. That place is currently occupied by the fuel tank......
     
  13. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    Where does this come from? How is the motor wound? Typically the current increases as speed decreases, due to lower back EMF.
     
  14. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Believe it's a PM motor. Can't recall where it came from, might have been from talking to an electric motor guy. Might not also. What you're saying makes more sense to me.
    Like I posted, I don't know what's going to happen. The whole purpose of this is to find out how long it will live. If the life span is acceptable then I've got OBA for $20 If not I'll have to spend about $200 for the motor it should have.
     
  15. TorkDSR

    TorkDSR 1/2 ton status

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    i dont have a nitrogen compressability chart here.... but isnt there far more co2 in the same sized bottle?
     
  16. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Not for nuthin but remember a while back now when bar stool racing was all the rage? They used to use Toyota starters and they lasted night after night after night hours on end.

    Just a thought to add to the mix.
     
  17. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    N2 vs CO2 compressibility:
    Hum, the barstool racing I remember used Ford 8 Volt starters. Not a common part. Must have been from the first go-round in Barstool Racing.
    This starter came from a Subaru and is a Hitachi unit just like the starter on my yota 4x4.

    On the CO2 freezing off problem, has anyone used the high flow regulators and did it help or cure the problem?
     
  18. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I never had a co2 freeze problem until my system developed a small leak (its somewhere between the regulator and the hose, just need to find it once the tank is MT). Before that, it would get cold, but not freeze to the point of cutting off flow.

    j
     
  19. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    Any of you guys ever play paintball?? I'm pretty sure none of you ever have, or if you did, you just have CO2 tanks, not Nitro tanks...

    On the one hand, a CO2 tank can hold a max pressure of something like 1000psi... and that's probably on the high side.

    On the other hand, you have a carbon reinforced N2 tank that while keeping nitrogen in a gaseous form (because of the properties of the gas itself) can handle up to 3000psi.

    You guys really think you can put more liquid CO2 in a 10 lb tank than you can gaseous N2 in a 10 lb carbon fiber tank? The fact that the N2 remains a gas should give you guys a hint that it can be compressed a hell of a lot more than CO2 in a similar sized but completely different strength tank. If you are filling a CO2 bottle with N2, of course it won't hold as much because it isn't designed to hold a compressed gas, but rather a compressed liquid.

    I need to refill my CO2 tank at least 3 times in a 4 hour painball game... I go through about a case of paint in that time, or 2000 shots for those of you who have never been... if I use the same size N2 tank, I fill only one time in the morning, and after 4 hours, I can still head over to the practice range and plink off another 200-400 shots after shooting a whole case on the field. No refill, and I still have to let the rest of the N2 out of the tank after I'm done with all my paint.

    If you are running out of N2 before CO2, you are doing something wrong...
     

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