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Architects Suck

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Stickseler, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    So I sold this 185 unit condo project and it comes with 760+ windows and 380+ doors all in Andersen and all with special and diferent glazings and colors and sizes. I get the whole thing ready to go over with the builder on Wednesday and This afternoon (monday) a new set of plans show up, no note, no nothing and these are huge.

    The Architect has made some changes:doah: oh well

    So here it is 0200 and I've finished the revised take-off and the wife wants me to come home and she'll wake me up early, so Ive got to be back here in 4 hours to enter all this crap in the computer because the panel plant needs the revised rough openings. I cant see straight, even had to wear my glasses for the first time in a year because I was getting a headache.

    I have to do it tomorrow morning because the kids have baseball and I'm leaving at 4 tomorrow (pats self on back for being a good dad):D


    That is all :(
     
  2. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    The project we just finished up was like that and worse. We were still getting rev'd drawings after stuff was built and had to make a bunch of last minute changes to a large section while it was at the paint shop.

    One part of the drawing package had 7 DCR's (design change request)attached, then got redrawn, then got rev'd once more. In total my drawing folder for that job was 6" thick of 11x17 prints.

    my boss was on the phone with the customer a little while back and the line we got was "Give us what we need, not what we ask for" :haha: :haha:

    I feel your pain...

    Rene
     
  3. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    Architects and interior designers. Put em on the bus with the lawyers and drive it into the ocean.
     
  4. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Lawyers and other sharks are comfortable in their home enviroment.....
     
  5. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    The changes probable came from the owner or AHJ and not the Architects. 99% of the Arch. aren't going to change something on their own dollar unless it is req'ed by somebody else. If it's aready in the building stage they are onto another project.
     
  6. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    Mmmmmmm...
    The number of possible responses to that line is large and satisfyingly sarcastic. But only a couple would allow you to keep the customer.
    For example:

    "Give us what we need, not what we ask for"
    Okay then... [click]

    "Give us what we need, not what we ask for"
    Alright... Y'all need to make up your F'n minds and settle on a design. I'm getting tired of scrapping all this material and throwing man-hours out the window because you decided to change your minds AGAIN!

    "Give us what we need, not what we ask for"
    OK. Put the phone in your off-hand, and back up against a solid wall. Put your good hand around your neck, with your throat in the "yoke" between your thumb & index finger. Now, try to push your hand through to the wall. Keep doing it, no matter how much you think you should stop.

    :D :D :haha: :haha:
    Anyone else??
     
  7. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    Oh no, this is one of those award winning "green" save the Bay projects, the architect didnt like the std green color of some of the windows, wanted to know how much to get Andersen to do a custom color, the builder about choked:haha:
     
  8. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    On a side note, never supply material where the owners are an Architect and a Lawyer, Ive actually know a few builders who turned down a nice big job last year because of that
     
  9. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    There is that 1%!

    If I was the builder I would be notifing them that there is going to be a T&M billing for re-work!
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    My boss uses number one, then bills them for their mistakes. This particular customer has plenty of money and has yet to even murmur a complaint. We're just starting a new job right now, same customer...and the drawings are just as fuXXored as last time. Good thing we have the models to work from when needed.

    Rene
     
  11. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    I was thinking that the sharks would get food poisoning.:rolleyes:
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    A shark would never eat a lawyer...professional courtesy and all. :p:

    Rene
     
  13. justinf

    justinf 1/2 ton status

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    While this may be true once in a while, I know that during design of a building, the architects change the floorplans all the ****in time! And of top of that, they have no concept of the electrical and mechanical needs for a building, so it is always a fight with them to get enough room in the building for mechanical and electrical equipment.:mad:
     
  14. SkulzNBonz

    SkulzNBonz 1/2 ton status

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    I feel your pain. Our engineering/drafting department releases drawings then about 5 stinking revisions to every drawing, sometimes long after the project is out the door. I'm about ready to take their crayons away:haha: . I think most are Nascar rejects who couldn't get the whole "go fast, turn left" thing down and took up drafting instead.:D

    John
     
  15. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    When a project is in design there are many reasons for these changes, owner, AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction, like; City, County, and State), civil engineers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, plumbing, glazers, who ever has a problem. Plans have to be corrected and hopefully 90% of those problems are found prior to the job going out for bid… But that isn’t going to happen in real life. So after a bid has been awarded then that is when T&M comes into play… Or a bid for the revised plans our offered for bids

    An architect isn’t trained or required to know what is the Civil Engineer, Mechanical Engineer or the Electrical Engineer or Plumbing needs are… He is there to design a structurally sound structure that meets the Reg.'s of the AHJ, and to interpret what the owner wants. As a Civil Draftsman, I had to change drawings all the time due to someone else needs. And just thing you got job security, or are you just paid on comission?
     
  16. justinf

    justinf 1/2 ton status

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    As I said, sometimes there are legitamite reasons for changing floor plans, but alot of the time, it is just the architect trying to design a fancy building, and most architects hate having to give up floor space for the infrastructure (mechanicals and electrical equipment) of a building.

    Any good architect should have some understanding of what is required to operate a building. A good architect should not think that an air handler can fit into a 4'x4' closet, and neither can a 1000 amp unit substation. The only thing I see architects worry about is the appearance. Most of the time, it seems like they could care less about the function of a building as long as it looks good.

    As far as the job security/payment thing, I am an electrical engineer, most of the time we are paid on a lump sum basis when we do building design. Once in a while we can get extra money for major changes, but if it is just a bunch of walls moving a few inches to a foot, it is very hard for us to convince the architect or owner to pay us extra, but yet we have to spend extra time moving stuff on drawings, and sometimes redoing calculations.
     
  17. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    I understand what your saying. But remember the fact that an achitect is there to make the building look good and make it structul safe. Not to know your spec requirements of what your going to use. He is not going to design what your needs are, due to the fact that if he make a room for your electrical room that is 20'x50' and your needs are half that, are you going to notify them that that extra room isn't needed? He doesn't design he mechanical or electrical room due to clearence demands of equipment. What makes it so hard to move your drawings in CAD? Re calc may take a bit more time, but I don't see that much. We had to redraw retenction basins all the time due to one thing or another and recalc the retention but it didn't take that long... Your getting a revised set of CAD drawing from the Architect with the changes, aren't you? We can go back and fourth on this.... And aren't you on salary as anElectrical Engineer or do you own your own firm? If you own your own firm you have already added in the rework cost into your bill....
     
  18. justinf

    justinf 1/2 ton status

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    My last reply wasn't that clear, it is a pain to get the room size we need, on every new job, but what is worse is when we get architects who send us revised floor plans at least once a week throughout the entire project, even up to the final week before bidding. Then we have to go through the plans to find all of the changes (they inevitably never tell us of all the changes), then make sure each of our plans are updated, it adds up. Alot of times we will hold off on updating our baseplans for weeks just to save time. But still when we have jobs with 100 electrical floorplans, and it takes fifteen minutes to open each drawing with the updated floorplan, move our equipment on the drawing to match the new floor plan, and then save and close the drawing, that is an extra 25 hours of time each time it is updated.

    I work on a lot of civil projects as well (municipal Projects) and typically we have a lot fewer drawings on those projects, so the time does not add up as quick when there are changes.

    I am tired of this, I still stand by my point that most architects are a pain to work with.
     

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