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Architects Suck

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Stickseler, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    No offence to any on here /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Rant ON /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif

    But why cant these idiots draw a house correctly...for all the f'n money they get you would think they could dray a complete set of plans. This match existing crap has got to go. And Don't tell me the wall heights I like to guess and be wrong. How hard is it to go measure??

    An the new construction crap is just as bad...and I fix the pronlem and then they get paid to fix the mistake. they should be required to estimate materials on a house just so they can see how stupid they are. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    One asked me once whay I wasn;t one and I told him I was too samrt /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Oh yea quit spec'n Doug Fir...this is the east coast...we dont have struc-fir and we don't have redwood /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Quit using spec from the 60's they also suck /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    Oh well time to go home

    Rant OFF

    Yes somebody is having a bad day at work /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  2. sapper

    sapper 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    your drunk arent you????
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    your drunk arent you????
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't know about Sticky, but I'm workin on it... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Vodka and Sunkist Orange Soda, it's all I have. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  4. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    safe to say the archs know the dimensions, just didnt pass the info on. I know when i was in studio, i would know a building design inside and out... and at a final review I would forget that the critics DONT know crap about my building. When you live/breathe a project for a few months, everything about it becomes 2nd nature to you... so sometimes ya forget to pass along relevant info. Of course, I was just a punk arch student, real ones should know better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    at any rate, if you have the CDs, why not just measure of those?

    j
     
  5. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I purchased a set of generic plans for a 24x24 garage off the internet. The place I bought them from is located in Denver. The plans looked perty good but here in CA you need a structural engineer's stamp on them for earthquake and sizemic reasons.

    The plans cost $160.... The structural engineer's stamp cost $1300..... Go figure.... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  6. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    doh! not the infamous generic plans!!! prolly not the work of a real architect at all...

    j
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    You should work with the friggin 'cartoons' they want to pass off as engineered prints for the crap I have to build. Half the time I need to call the psychic fabricators hotline to get critical dimensions...or we get a datum from a theoretical centerline you can't measure from, and it has to be within 30 thou tolerance /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    Worse yet is the complete and total over complication of what should be a simple part.

    Here's my favorite...they'll spec 1/2" wall rect. tube, then have it butt into another tube of the same dimensions. The radius on the tube is so big you end up with a very ugly joint and a huge gap. The gap needs filling when being welded and the extra heat causes twice the normal amount of distortion. Then the guy sees the final product and doesn't like the way it looks.../forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Funny how it looked so much better on the computer screen. They cannot seem to grasp the difference between theory and reality...

    Everyone makes mistakes, but to truly fukk something up takes an engineer (or Architect)

    I personally think that a mandatory pre-requisite for any engineer, structural detailer, or architect should be 2 years building the crap they design or draw.

    Rene
     
  8. Ddragggon

    Ddragggon 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I personally think that a mandatory pre-requisite for any engineer, structural detailer, or architect should be 2 years building the crap they design or draw.

    Rene

    [/ QUOTE ]I have to agree with this. my friend Nate was going to school to become a mechanical engineer, and working in a fabrication shop at the same time. he got the best of both worlds: learned what a machine and machinist can be expected to do, as well as learned what kind of engineering he should expect out on the floor.
     
  9. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yes, fabricators of stuff need to have some patients with architects from time to time... they are artists and will make some of the boo-boos that you are talkin about. Real world experience is good for archs, and most of the great ones have some of it... at the same time, considering the incredibly wide array of materials an arch might draw on, its hard to have experience in them all. So many plastics, metals, types of concrete, masonry, glass etc etc etc etc. I mean, you can spend your whole life working with any one of those and still not know EVERYTHING there is to know about em.

    at any rate, I agree. now, as engineering types or fabricators... figure out how to build what I draw and quit pestering me with these meaningless details... i have buildings to design! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    j
     
  10. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    your drunk arent you????
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't know about Sticky, but I'm workin on it... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Vodka and Sunkist Orange Soda, it's all I have. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Southern Comfort. right outta the bottle. warm. no need to wash a shot glass.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gifGrant
     
  11. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Southern Comfort. right outta the bottle.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I believe the correct name for that beverage is "Sudden Discomfort"...or at least it should be. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    J-man...here is another example of world class arrogance and stupidity. We build aircraft tooling and all the support platforms around the tooling. Currently all the stuff we're working on is for the new Airbus A-380 (the really big one...500+ passengers) being built in spain.

    We've delivered and installed a half dozen different parts of the job over there, each 'part' of it is up to 4 or 5 separate print packages.

    I recently got a set of prints where all the material was spec'd in metric. That's fine if we were building this in Europe, but in North America metric material is very expensive and hard to come by in a timely fashion. In order to make the target delivery dates we have to go back and get permission to use regular material. That doesn't sound like it's a big deal until you are out on the shop floor and have to personally re-figure every dimension, calculate everything off of material centerlines etc etc. Common is a mount plate being spec'd at 12 mm. We can get 1/2" plate which is 12.7 mm. If a critical overall height or length involves a few bolted together parts that .7 mm will add up and screw you up. Metric spec being built with imperial material will add up to 20% to the total labor on an average job we do.

    I asked why they would spec in metric knowing it's being built here and was told "The prints are deliverable documents" for the customer. Sounds like a good enough reason right? Well the job I'm speaking off bolts to a previous assembly we built...and that assembly was spec'd and built with imperial dimensions and material spec'd. Same customer, and the two assemblies become one larger assembly once they get to Spain.

    So, the "Deliverable document" story is pure crap. The issue is an arrogant ass sitting at a computer very far from our shop too goddamn stupid to select 'imperial dims' on his computer.

    Rene
     
  12. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    sounds like a real PITA! ur dealing with engys though, not archs, so dont blame me!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif the relationship between contractor and architect will always have some problems... the former tends to want to save $, do things fast etc, while the later wants things to work/look the way they draw/spec it... which may or may not be clear to the builder. Naturally, this causes problems. While i can understand some frustration on both sides... I dont think we can assume that its always some kind of elitism on the side of the arch/engy... i mean, entrusting someone else to build what you have designed places a LOT of responsibility on the builder. A design you put your soul into is like your child.. and you hand it over to a bunch of guys to make it happen because you believe that they can get it done. Besides, if ANYONE could do it, we could just go with joe bobs ghetto construction company who will build the thing for half what you will and you'd be out of a job like me. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    j
     
  13. rugger03

    rugger03 1/2 ton status

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    I got this email from a friend who is a retired Engineer from Hughes Areospace. Thought it fits with this topic.

    A friend sent me this piece last week, and for all of us that have had to deal with spec's, and wondered about their origin ... this should help! Enjoy...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    When you see a space shuttle sitting on the launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are the solid rocket boosters, or SRBs.

    The SRBs are made by Morton Thiokol at a factory in Utah.

    Originally, the engineers who designed the SRBs wanted to make them much fatter than they are. Unfortunately, the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site in Florida and the railroad line runs through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to be made to fit through that tunnel.

    Now, the width of that tunnel is just a little wider than the U.S. Standard Railroad Gauge (distance between the rails) of 4 feet, 8.5 inches.

    That's an exceedingly odd number. Did you ever wonder why that gauge was used? Because US railroads were designed and built by English expatriates, and that's the way they built them in England.

    Okay, then why did the English engineers build them like that?

    Because the first rail lines of the 19th century were built by the same craftsmen who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

    I'll bite, why did those craftsmen choose that gauge? Because they used the same jigs and tools that were previously used for building wagons, and you guessed it, the wagons used that wheel spacing.

    Now I feel like a fish on a hook! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing?

    Well, if the wagon makers and wheelwrights of the time tried to use any other spacing, the wheel ruts on some of the old, long distance roads would break the wagon axles. As a result, the wheel spacing of the wagons had to match the spacing of the wheel ruts worn into those ancient European roads.

    So who built those ancient roads?

    The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

    And the ruts?

    The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. And since the chariots were made by Imperial Roman chariot makers, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing.

    Well, here we are. We now have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.

    Specs and bureaucracies live forever.

    That's nice to know, but it still doesn't answer why the Imperial Roman war chariot designers chose to spec the chariot's wheel spacing at exactly 4 feet, 8.5 inches.

    Are you ready?

    Because that was the width needed to accommodate the rear ends of two Imperial Roman war horses!!!

    Well, now you have it. The railroad tunnel through which the late 20th century space shuttle SRBs must pass was excavated slightly wider than two 1st century horses' asses.

    Consequently, a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was spec'd by the width of a horse's ass!

    So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horses' ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Now you know what is "behind" it all.

    ~Author Unknown~
     
  14. Ddragggon

    Ddragggon 1/2 ton status

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    a common misconception about railroads is that the train is no wider than the tracks. this is in fact False, as a majority of trains are between 2 and 3 times as wide as the tracks they sit on.
     
  15. Rob 85K5

    Rob 85K5 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I know the feeling!
    Try building a Hospital with the same crap!!
    We have 4 addenda to the plans and every sheet has changed.
    We haven't even started!
     
  16. rugger03

    rugger03 1/2 ton status

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    true, but the width of the tracks is the limiting factor for how wide the cars can be.
     
  17. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    At least you haven't started yet. Our last job came back from the paint shop...looked great, then we got 4 pages of 'Rev's'. Had to lower the whole thing by 4", rework the stairs etc etc... /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    Rene
     
  18. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    your drunk arent you????
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Havent these asshats ever heard of details...they make as much money on a set of plas as I do in 6 months and I've got to figure out there mistakes /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    I'm glad we keep beer in the fridge at work /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  19. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Havent these asshats ever heard of details...they make as much money on a set of plas as I do in 6 months and I've got to figure out there mistakes

    [/ QUOTE ]

    revisions:

    1. Haven't
    2. plans
    3. their

    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    j
     
  20. clubba68

    clubba68 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    One asked me once whay I wasn;t one and I told him I was too samrt /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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