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Att: Shawn

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by 88Jimmy, Jun 13, 2000.

  1. 88Jimmy

    88Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Shawn on your rear Disc brakes what did you do with your stock proportioning valve I know you used a wilwood one for your rear. What did you do for the front.


    350 Vortec TPI D60 14Bolt 4.56 4"lift 35 BFG A/T
     
  2. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    I never touched the proportioning valve or master cylinder. It's all stock and stops good. The front brakes are the standard D60 calipers with performance pads. The rear pads are normal. Are you having problems? The Wilwood for the rear was optional and I haven't had to turn in down yet but I might when I take my top off. If my stock master ever goes out, it will be replaced with a 3/4 or 1 ton unit along with a new 1 ton proportioning valve.

    Shawn
    87 K5
    D60, 14 bolt, TSM rear disks
     
  3. 88Jimmy

    88Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    No I'm not having problems yet I'm trying to get all the parts for the rear Disc's
    I wish I could get home early enough to call TSM
    they only take orders from 1 to 4pm and I get home to late.
    I guess I should break down and get a cell phone.

    350 Vortec TPI D60 14Bolt 4.56 4"lift 35 BFG A/T
     
  4. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    I changed nothing concerning my master cylinder or prop valve when I installed the TSM disc kit on my rear 14 bolt in my '77 Sub. Stops great, no lock-up, even with 39.5 Swampers!! Why are you guys having to change your prop valve and master cylinder?!?!?!

    ken
     
  5. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    Just get the TSM caliper brackets for $120. The FF 14 bolt kit uses front Ford F-250 rotors. I'm not sure on the year but I'll look into it. The calipers are 76-78 Elderado rears but Corey used 85 Elderado on his but it might be because of his SF 14 bolt. I like Coreys better since his return springs are attached a better way. I need to call TSM about this to make sure. I hate to say this I'm starting to acquire too many Ford parts.

    87 K5 with:
    Ford rotors (for TSM disks)
    Ford pitman arm (for crossover steering)
    Ford starter solonoid (actually Summits)
    Ford shock towers (for longer shocks)
     
  6. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    Ken-
    I don't have to change my master or pro. valve. Just in the future, I'd like to get rid of the 1/2 ton plastic master. Just taking off that plastic lid makes me nervous. I believe the 1 ton units possibly offer more pressure in the same pedal distance (at least this is what FourWheeler mag told me). You have enough rear weight in the burb so you don't need to run a Wilwood adjustable valve in the rear. TSM suggested it if I take off my top.

    Shawn
    87 K5
     
  7. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Shawn, do those TSM caliper brackets come with instructions on how to do the job? Also, when ya get a chance, could ya look up which year of F250 rotors? Thansk man..........
     
  8. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    I believe the rotors are '80-90 F250 & F350. I can check TSMs catalog tomorrow (it tells you) but maybe someone will post before that? As for using '85 Eldo calipers...that is for the SF 14 kit...as the FF 14 bolt kit must use rear Eldo calipers from 1976-1978, after that (1979-1985) the Eldo used the smaller calipers (which is what TSM uses for the SF 14 bolt kit). If you don't wanna run Eldo calipers, you can run Chevy 1/2-3/4 ton 4x4 front calipers ('73-87), as they are the same exact size as the Eldos, but do not have a parking brake provision. I am running these on my rear right now, haven't had a chance to put on the Eldo calipers yet.

    Shawn, you should be using the FSJ (full size Jeep, Wagoneer) drop pitman arm for your crossover steering. You don't have to modify it like you do the Ford arm...I know I have used both the Ford arm and the FSJ arm. The FSJ arm required zero mods...the Ford required me to hacksaw out the 4 tabs so that I could clock the arm correctly, welding on a spacer to thicken the arm as where it attached to the box, the nut would bottom out, AND I had to enlargen the tapered tie-rod hole, as the Ford uses a smaller tapered hole than the GMs or FSJs. Parts Mike has these arms...I'm thinking about getting one to replace my modified Ford arm on one of my crossovers...I just don't like that it's been modified that much, especially when there is a BOLT ON arm that works great!!

    ken
     
  9. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    Ken-
    You are correct on the years of the rotors for the TSM 14 bolt kit. According to their catolog, it is 80-90 Ford 4x4 3/4 ton rotors but they supposely have modified stud holes. I didn't notice anything special about the stud holes but it may not be worth messing with if machine work has to be done. I may call them tomorrow to ask about this.

    As far as the pitman arm goes for the crossover, I mentioned the Ford pitman arm since the Superlift dropped pitman arm 1104 applies both to the 74-90 Jeep J10/20 and 78-79 Ford Bronco/F150. www.superlift.com shows these applications with part #'s. This is the same arm I'm currently running on my AGR box with 2wd shaft. There was no tabs to hack.

    Waxer- The TSM kit comes with instructions. It's a easy install. The cadilac calipers are a little of a pain to bleed because I had to rotate them to get the bleeder valve on top. I purchased the optional steel braided lines to do this.

    Shawn
    87 K5
     
  10. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I've got the TSM brackets on the 14-bolt FF in my '75. Calipers from a '77 or newer Caddy won't fit as they only open 1 inch. The '74-76 Eldorado rear calipers open 1 1/4 inch (measured inside the brake pads). The later ones won't fit over the Ford rotor.

    My master cylinder was about dead anyway so I swapped it for one out of a 1980 Trans Am with the 4-wheel disc option. This got me a larger capacity resevoir for the rear brakes. You have to displace more fluid to move that big caliper piston than to move a tiny wheel cylinder piston.

    The caliper piston also requires more brake fluid as the pads wear. It doesn't fully retract each time as a self adjusting drum brake mechanism does. The extra reserve in the master cylinder makes it less likely that you'll suck air into the lines and have to bleed the rear brakes again.

    I don't know if this master cylinder is a bolt-on replacement for the later model plastic master cylinders.

    The holes in the back side of the Ford rotors are too small for the head of the 14-bolt's lug studs to fit. That's why TSM recommends machining out the holes. Instead, I bought rotors locally for $34 each and ground just a few thousandths off of the outer edge of each stud head. They're massive so I don't think the strength is compromised by doing this. This also means that if I have to replace a rotor in the future, I can pick one up at any parts store and use it as is.

    I think it's also possible to use a spacer behind the TSM bracket and use the front rotor from an 8-lug Dana 44. The rotor is offset about 1/4-inch different than the Ford rotor. This would allow you to use the same rotor at all 4 corners and not have to do any machining or grinding to make it fit. I don't know why TSM doesn't do it this way as some of the other disk brake conversion kits use the GM front rotor for the rear. Had I known this sooner, I'd have gone that route.

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    http://ThunderTruck.ColoradoK5.com
     
  11. BlazerBoy

    BlazerBoy 1/2 ton status

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    Since you guys are on the subject, Is there anyway to get a disc brake set up for my stock 10 bolt. Or is it not even worth it? I dont plan to upgrade for sometime if ever.. just wondering thanks

    BlazerBoy
    http://generalblueballs.coloradok5.com
     
  12. Brian 89KBlazer

    Brian 89KBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    WOW Harry, you're literally a fountain of knowledge!! [​IMG] That sounds like an excellent idea of using the spacer and GM front rotor on the 14-bolt. One question though, would this also work for the Dana 60 front rotor or is this exclusive to the Dana 44 rotor or are the Dana 60 and Dana 44 the same rotor?? (Hope that wasn't too confusing[​IMG][​IMG]!!)

    Also, where would this spacer go? Between the axle flange and the caliper mounting bracket so that the caliper gets spaced outward? If that's the case, it would only be a matter of fabbing a piece of plate to fit?!?

    I plan to run a Dana 60/14-bolt combo like Shawn but want to avoid all those FORD parts (sorry Shawn!![​IMG][​IMG], couldn't resist!)

    Thanks
    Brian
    89KBlazer
     
  13. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    It comes from years of spinning wrenches and swapping parts in search of the perfect K5. [​IMG]

    I don't have a Dana 60 front, so I don't know much about 'em. I've never busted a front end (yet) so the 44 works for me. It's those darn rear ends that I kept breaking. [​IMG]

    The spacer would go between the flange and the bracket. There are other kits out there that use a factory-looking front bracket (complete with the backing plate to keep spashes off the rotor), just re-drilled to bolt to the rear flange. They include a spacer that lines it up right with the rotor. It might have been a Stainless Steel Brakes kit that I saw with this setup. I can't remember for sure.

    I've got some other Ford parts in my rig. The front seats came out of an '84 Mustang SVO. [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    http://ThunderTruck.ColoradoK5.com
     
  14. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    I don't like the idea of a spacer. Why chance anything? So what, it's a ford rotor...big deal! Dana 44 and 60 rotors are much different. If you're planning on a Dana 60 front (aren't you all??) the idea of having all 4 rotors the same goes out the window anyway. Also, with the Ford rotors, I did have to grind a bit off the shoulders of the lug studs just on the outer edges on one side, where the shoulders hit the inner diameter of the rotor. No big deal, about 5 minutes with a bench grinder for all 16 studs. I did, too, have to install longer studs, as I am running Weld Racing aluminum wheels, which are thicker than steel wheels. That combined with the fact that the rotor that replaces the drum is thicker, just left too little thread engagement on the lug nuts for me to feel safe. So, if you're running aluminum wheels, get longer studs. I just took an old one for a pattern to NAPA and had them give me 16 1" longer studs. Now I have lots of thread engagement, much more than before. It feels good to have that extra margin of safety.

    Hey Shawn, I wonder how the Superlift pitman could be the same for a FSJ and a Ford, as the FSJ uses a larger and different angle of taper for the tie-rod hole...just wondering...maybe they bore it out to a FSJ and give you a reducer-spacer if you're running a Ford application. I will have to ask Parts Mike about this. The FSJ arm he supplied worked without any mods for me, whereas the Ford arm was a royal PITA to make work...I MUCH prefer the FSJ arm...I don't see how one could make one arm that fits both applications.

    Harry, Eldos did not have disc rear brakes in '74 and '75...only '76 and up. So, I guess '76 Eldo calipers is the only year to get (glad that's what I got!!).

    ken
     
  15. Brian 89KBlazer

    Brian 89KBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Man, this is getting harder and harder to picture since I have yet to get my 14-bolt and tear into it [​IMG] so slow down so i can get a pen & notepad!![​IMG][​IMG]
    Seroiusly, there are some excellent ideas coming out in this discussion and I guess all have pros and cons.
    <font color=blue>Ken </font color=blue> I was only joking about the Ford parts, I'm not getting paid by Chevy or Ford so I'm not going to argue for either! What part of the studs did you grind down? Was it the shoulder section between the end of the threads and the head? If so, how much because I thought they were supposed to be a pressed fit? Also, why do you say a Dana 60 rotor won't fit the rear 14-bolt? Is the hub hole not big enough to fit over the full-floater hub or what? It would be nice if I could use the same rotor at all 4 corners, whether it be a Ford or a Chev part. If that won't work, then your idea would probably be my next choice.

    Thanks
    Brian
    89KBlazer
     
  16. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    Ken-
    I purchased a pitman arm from Parts Mike and another one from 4WP which is the Superlift 1104. They are both exactly the same. I just use Mikes as a spare. The 2 arms are a bolt in and came with nothing else. Keep in mind the Superlift 1104 is only for a 78-79 Ford with power steering and the FSJ. The other years of Fords are different.

    Shawn
     
  17. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    Shawn, that's is probably the difference then...as you mention it.

    Brian, the only part of the stud I had to grind down was the top edge, meaning the widest part of it. I did not grind on the knurl area, as that is a press fit and grinding on that would screw things up. The whole setup only took about an hour and 1/2 for both sides. The TSM kit is truly a bolt on, and is REAL EASY!!

    ken
     
  18. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    One other thing. If you go the cheaper route and get the TSM brackets and rotors separate, be sure to get longer grade 8 bolts (4 per side). These are the same bolts that hold the backing plate on. Here's some pictures of the install.
    http://www.off-road.com/chevy/reviews/tsm/
    Eventually it will be an article.
    Also be careful NOT to turn the arm on the Cadilac calipers. I accidently did this and couldn't get the piston to go back in. I tried taking it apart but destroyed a seal putting it back together. The parts store took it back after I told them it was leaking...

    Shawn
     
  19. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Shawn...speaking of those stupid caddy calipers...I turned that stupid lever and had to disassemble the thing...got it back together, but I just don't understand how that stupid thing works!!! Do you have any idea?? I know it works, but just don't understand how!!! Also, where and how much were your rebuilt calipers? Mine look good (used), so I'm gonna try em how they are!

    ken
     
  20. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    LOL! Well now I don't feel so bad. I couldn't figure those things out either. It uses a screw to adjust the piston but I couldn't figure out what ratchets the arm. If you look at one of the pictures in the above link, you will see one in pieces. I think I paid $30 each and a $10 core. Other stores wanted $80 core each! Good luck.

    Shawn
     

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