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aviation gas

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by alesko, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. alesko

    alesko Registered Member

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    I just picked up a 355 with domed pistons and 64 cc heads. As near as I can calculate this should be between 12 to 13:1 compression. Is there any reason that I couldn't run 100 low lead aviation gas in this engine?
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    yes, you are on the ground, not in the air. Aviation gas has added oxygen which isn't good for street use. Just break down and buy the real fuel you need don't mess with airplane fuel.
     
  3. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    thats kinnda strange to me becuase all the guys around here with aircraft engines run AF gas in there airboats
     
  4. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Here's an article from Popular Hot Rodding magazine, January 1998. The
    article is titled "Petroleum Proof, High-Performance Gasolines" by Scott
    Parkhurst. There also was a small chart in the aricle that showed
    effectiveness of octane boosters.


    We asked Sunoco's Wurth about using aviation fuel in an
    automobile engine. He was emphatic when he said, "Don't do it. Even
    though Sunoco is a major producer of aviation fuel, this fuel is
    specifically blended for aircraft engines. Aircraft operate under very
    different conditions than automobiles, and the fuel requirements are
    quite different as well. Aircraft engines generally use very small
    pistons and run with in a very narrow rpm range. There's no need for
    transient throttle response in an airplane because after the pilot does
    the initial engine run-up, the throttle is set in one position and the
    rpm doesn't normally change until landing. Also, airplanes fly where
    the air is cold and thin, and the atmospheric pressure is low. These
    are not even close to the conditions your street machine will see on the
    ground. Also, since most piston-driven aircraft cruise at 3,000 rpm or
    so, the burn rate of aviation gas is much too slow for any high
    performance automotive applications."


    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  5. JIM88K5

    JIM88K5 1/2 ton status

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    Try mixing it with your gas.
     
  6. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    my dad used to run AV gas in his Harley Davidson sometimes when he was in the navy. He said that you can't run it in normal engines for long periods of time or it will burn up you top end. He said he would only run it if he was low on gas and needed some juice to get to the gas station when he was on base.

    Mixing it might be an idea, but not straight from what he told me.

    Harley
     
  7. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    What I've mainly heard was the oxygen leans it out and of course running lean will burn up your top end.
     
  8. alesko

    alesko Registered Member

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    Thanks for the replies so far. However I question the value of the sunoco spokesmans reply in the article. Two points in paticular. First sunoco is going to tell you not to run af on the street because of profit, $2.20 a gallon for af, $5.50 a gallon for sunoco racing fuel. Second the quote about high altitude performance, where your street driven car will never see. How about takeoff and landings, which I believe is the most critical time of a flight. I'm not thrashing your reply, but that sunoco reps story has too many holes in it. Please keep the repies coming, I've thought about using this but really need to know if anyone has tried it.
    Also the reply about the guys around here with airboats use it. Please explain, I'm confusad.
     
  9. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    ever see those boats that go through the swamps? airboats. They run aircraft engines.
     
  10. alesko

    alesko Registered Member

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    Ok, airboat I got it now. Seen one running the river here once. Had a smallblock chevy though.
     
  11. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I have heard that the way they rate the octane is different for AV fuel. I read somewhere that even though the number is higher, when correctly compared the AV fuel was actually a lower octane on a automotive scale.

    It's kind of like tires, even though they look very similar (black, round, hollow, etc.) and serve the same basic purpose the tires on my wifes Honda are very different than the tires on a Corvette.
     
  12. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    From what I have learned over the years it is NOT a good idea to run Aviation Fuel - you can make more power running automotive fuel with the lowest octane level/rating that you can get away with .
    To many flame retardants will hurt the burn and not give you as much push durring the power stroke .
    Run what ever fuel your motor needs/demands but not any more than that .
    Tom
     
  13. bigblock454

    bigblock454 Clack Clack Clack Premium Member

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    For the super cheap price of SBC pistons just swap them out for something in the 9 to 10 range and run pump gas.
     
  14. alesko

    alesko Registered Member

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    That's a good point but gets away from the reason I bought the engine, power. Compression = power. I find it funny that nobody ever tried aviation gas.
     
  15. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I don't think it's an issue of trying AV gas, it's research. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  16. bablazer73

    bablazer73 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's an article from Popular Hot Rodding magazine, January 1998. The
    article is titled "Petroleum Proof, High-Performance Gasolines" by Scott
    Parkhurst. There also was a small chart in the aricle that showed
    effectiveness of octane boosters.


    We asked Sunoco's Wurth about using aviation fuel in an
    automobile engine. He was emphatic when he said, "Don't do it. Even
    though Sunoco is a major producer of aviation fuel, this fuel is
    specifically blended for aircraft engines. Aircraft operate under very
    different conditions than automobiles, and the fuel requirements are
    quite different as well. Aircraft engines generally use very small
    pistons and run with in a very narrow rpm range. There's no need for
    transient throttle response in an airplane because after the pilot does
    the initial engine run-up, the throttle is set in one position and the
    rpm doesn't normally change until landing. Also, airplanes fly where
    the air is cold and thin, and the atmospheric pressure is low. These
    are not even close to the conditions your street machine will see on the
    ground. Also, since most piston-driven aircraft cruise at 3,000 rpm or
    so, the burn rate of aviation gas is much too slow for any high
    performance automotive applications."



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    [/ QUOTE ] I agree about the sunoco pitch. BUT the fuel composition is different. We have tried to run AV fuel, and had tons of tuning problems. I hated spending 5.00 + a gallon for the race car. The fuel is made differently. I am NOT a chemist, But is has to do with the way the fuel burns with less atmosheric pressure. Less Oxygen at higher altitudes. A/V engines are designed to accept that varaible with take off/landing situation. Your basic carbed Engine can not be easily tuned.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I have heard that the way they rate the octane is different for AV fuel. I read somewhere that even though the number is higher, when correctly compared the AV fuel was actually a lower octane on a automotive scale.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  17. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    If your going to spend the extra money for "higher octane fuel" then just buy the stuff blended for high performance automobile engines,,,,,RACING FUEL 110 OCTANE /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif
    Heck Nascar is now running 112 oc this year. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  18. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    I think some of these reply's have tried AV fuel ( or researched it first ) and found it not to be the path to more power.
    I have seen print outs of dyno runs that proved many times that AV fuel was not effective compared to auto fuel .
    Please do some serious research if you still want to run AV fuel - IMHO it IS NOT the way to go . Tom
     
  19. 89K1500Chevy

    89K1500Chevy 1/2 ton status

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    RIGHT in florida they Run anywhere from Built Blown 454's to mild small block 350's. They use these things in Fishing tournaments and what not just to cruz around. The really wild ones have 6 blades or more pushing them. Really Crazy stuff i wish i had pictures of them. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif
     
  20. alesko

    alesko Registered Member

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    Thanks Tom, thats kinda what I was looking for. Dyno sheets that prove that it does not help power. I was thinking more about it stopping detonation, not increasing power. This idea just didn't come into my mind today. For months maybe years I've been asking different people their thoughts on av gas. Some guys say it will work some say no. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    I've heard everything from it wll eat the fuel lines to it will gum your fuel system, to if you use it the atmosphere wll dissolve and we will all fry from the suns rays. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    I was just hoping for one time to hear, I've used it for years and it works great, therefore proving my theory that the fuel companys have been bs ing us.
     

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