Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Avoiding spring wrap "Experts Needed"

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 45acp, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Avoiding spring wrap \"Experts Needed\"

    (added) If we are to benifit for all we need the "heavy weights" to weigh in with their advise. I am not interested in a solution for myself only.

    Since I am in the design/building process I would apprciate a education in how to avoid spring wrap. I have seen all kinds of traction bars ect. but I do not understand the pros/cons of all that I have seen and very little in the line of technical information on the subject. I know some of you are knowledgeable on the subject. Would you share your insight. Thanks,
     
  2. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Posts:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Bangor,Pa
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    from what ive seen and heard and personal experience,any truck with lift blocks will have at least a little axle what and some axle hop if you spin the tires.with out blocks and a spring lift,my blazer now longer hops when i spin the tires.ive never used a traction bar but from what ive heard they are supposed to eliminate axle wrap almost totally by keeping the axle in line because its hooked into the frame and cannot twist under strain.
     
  3. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2001
    Posts:
    4,579
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dade City, Florida
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    I dont know how popular this will be but I am looking into the old Traction Lifts from the late 80s (early 90s maybe). Rancho made them I think. I dont think they still make them, so I am gonna make a set myself and bolt them into the packs. I had a few friends that ran them and never had a problem. Theirs were fabbed too and were stronger than the production ones.
     
  4. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    There seems to be different ways to apply this idea of controling axle wrap without limiting the ability to flex the suspention flex. This is the concept that I am after.
     
  5. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,166
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    The traction control device I saw that made the most sense was a single ladder frame bar mounted at two points on the diff beside the housing with bushings. The other end was measured precisely the length of the front half of the springs and attached to a crossmember with a shackle and a 'johnny joint' which I understand to be a sloppy rod end. The shackle prevents binding when the spring cycles and should be near 90 degrees to the ladder bar. As the axle tries to wrap it puts the shackle under tension and prevents the wrap.
    The "Johnny joint' and the bushings on the housing allow for lots of twist motion without binding...

    I recall seeing a farily comprehensive article on it but never bookmarked the link. I'm fairly sure someone brighter than myself will post the link again/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

    Rene
     
  6. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    This is the idea that I was looking for. It makes sense that if you control from the middle of the axle you will not limit the flex at the ends. When you talk about shackels I assume you mean at the crossmember end? How long do you think the shackels were? Give me more. I like the concept.
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,166
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    From the pic i saw I'd say the shackle was about 2.5" to 3" long and it was at the crossmember end. The lower part of the shackle mounted to the crossmember and the upper part to the end of the ladder bar.

    One thing I liked about this design is that it would also tend to help 'guard' the driveshaft in the rocks if the lower link was built sturdy enough./forums/images/icons/smile.gif

    Rene
     
  8. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Here is something similar to what Steve is talking about:

    http://www.classicperform.com/5557TBK.html

    And here is what Rene is talking about, everyone refers to the "Sams" version (yellow thing a little down the page):

    http://www.sams4x4store.com/specialty.htm#Traction%20Bar

    But now, MO-Offroad is working on a version too, which is actually center mounted over the axle:

    http://mo-offroad.com/whatsnew.htm

    Rumor has it, that BorregoK5 may be working on something too... /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    Anyone get the impression that I am in desperate need of something like this??!!!! I'm just not too excited about the prices I've found so far... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    You have any tricks up your sleeve Bill? Drop me a PM if you need someone to test your protypes! My 454 is desperately trying to snap my 1/2 springs into a few pieces. I can wrap the axle bad enough to bind the u-joint @ the axle! /forums/images/icons/blush.gif /forums/images/icons/cool.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif I REALLY need to get a fix, and soon.

    -Dan
     
  9. jc71355

    jc71355 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Posts:
    830
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Port Neches, Texas
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    I've been wondering about that kind of lift. My boss said he had that on an old toyota and it worked awesome. Said it would almost pull the front tires off the ground. If you decide to do it or find a company that sells it please let me know.
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,166
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Sams...that is the one I was talking about. I knew someone brighter than me would post a link!!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif Thanks Dan!!! i'm bookmarking it now!

    Rene
     
  11. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Interesting... I guess the Sam's version might sit low enough to gaurd the DS some... but the lower arm would be angled upwards more sharply than the DS, so the coverage would be brief... maybe the lower 1/4 of the shaft...

    But I like the concept! Sams uses .380 wall tube for theirs! I would say that is pretty hefty. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

    BTW- Bill, here is the link to the thread I started a couple weeks ago, when I discovered my mangled rear ujoint, which is pictured right on top of this thread.

    http://coloradok5.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=blazer4x4&Number=504895&Forum=All_Forums&Words=ladder%20bar&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1month&Main=502695&Search=true#Post504895

    -Dan
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,166
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Here is a pic Bill...

    [​IMG]

    Rene
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,166
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    A custom built version could be done so that it guarded the driveshaft better...hint hint Bill!/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    Rene
     
  14. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Hehehehe.. and thats the wimpy one! Here is the REAL traction bar that Sams makes for the big boys:

    [​IMG]

    -Dan
     
  15. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Shoot, if he could come up with something similar, I'm looking to spend $150-$200 for the complete kit, and would be happy to test prototypes as long as I get one of the finished models! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Think you can make something to tame my 454 Bill? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

    -Dan
     
  16. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Awesome guys, with help like this I should be able to avoid the pitfalls of doing it by myself. Yes Dan if I do something like this you will get to try it out and Rene as well if interested. I want all the flex I can get with out sacrific to ride or applied torque. I am willing to look at ideas that are "out of the box" so keep them coming.
     
  17. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Plenty of flex here:

    FLEXIN DA RIG

    I'm real good at write ups on products that I am pleased with too Bill! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

    -Dan
     
  18. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2001
    Posts:
    4,579
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dade City, Florida
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Close Dan but no cigar. The things I am referring to were a 2x2 sq. tube that went between the spring and axle, but had an arm on it that had straps that went up to the springs, and had pins to stop wrap. What I am thinking of doing is making them to be bolted to the pack, only 1 1/2 tall, and thicker wall than Rancho did.
     
  19. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    The issues I've gotten from the various people I've talked to, is that its difficult to make a "one fits all", or "out of the box" solution, due to the different lifts, pinion angles, driveline lengths, trans/transfer case lengths, etc. So I think there might have to be some aspect of "custom" to all every kit made, in order to really make the system work well.

    I would think that the ORD shackles were pretty close to the size I imagine working well.

    Anything else you need? No one out there really makes a good kit for the fullsize crowd just yet... so this seems like a "hard shell" to crack. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif But once you get it figured out, there should be lotza folks looking to buy "omelettes"! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

    -Dan
     
  20. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Posts:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Re: Avoiding spring wrap

    Steve, I don't follow what your telling me. Can you draw a schetch and fax it to me (520-882-8353) or post it on this thread?
     

Share This Page