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**AZ CK5ers, please read update, FJ wheelers- pay attention to this.

Discussion in 'Rocky Mountain Region' started by FWP, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    I want to pass this information along. There's some stuff going down at the BLM very soon. Keep an eye on things, do what's needed if you like wheelin there. Pass it on to the guys who aren't on CK5. Please pay attention to Sandee's posts in this link, she works hard to keep OUR trails open, and has the inside scoop, working closely with BLM for many years now. I would say this is serious.

    Read this, bookmark it.... http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=17567

    Fred


    I am updating Fred's post on this, for good reasons.

    First let me state that like below, this is no joke, and based on the traffic on this particular post, it does not seem that anyone one is taking this very seriously.

    This is very serious, and being the A type Arrogant type personality I am, I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed about the traffic on this post.

    I expect that ever person in AZ that has ever wheeled in FJ to get involved. Do you guys not understand what is happening here? Log on to the link that Fred posted and read what is happening.....

    I am not going to give up on this one. We will have no need whatsoever to have a AZ/Rocky Mountain Forum if there are no trail to wheel on. How would you like to be relegated to wheeling on a smooth dirt road in Florence?

    Post up your support, let me know you can make the meeting, when they are planned. A day off during the middle of the week when needed is going to be a cheap investment now instead of loosing trails down the road....

    I am going to be compiling a phone and address list shortly, for everyone on CK5 in AZ, and I expect that no matter where you live in AZ, you help.

    You want to keep trails open, now is the time.

    Rob
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2006
  2. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    I really think when the meetings come , we all need to show up . I would think they need all of us !!
     
  3. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    This was my reply to Sandee at VJC:

    Sandee,
    I also was crossed from CK5 by Fred Pierce. I'm the moderator at CK5 for the AZ/Rocky Mountain Forum.
    This concerns me very much. I am here to state that I will gather our troops on CK5 regarding this issue.
    Whatever is needed please let me know. I will make sure that we have people in attendance if needed for the meetings with BLM, meeting to plan, whatever.
    If funds are need I can start collect these also.
    I need to be put into the loop of what is needed somehow. Do you have a mass mailing list or something?
    Please understand that I and our group on CK5 are very serious about this also.
    I also have some connections with some of the owners of the larger 4x4 shops in town, and I am very confident that $ could be donated if necessary.
    Please let me know how to help. We will be there, no matter what!!
    I will check this post daily as needed, but if other communications are needed, please contact me at one of the contact points listed.

    Name: Rob Finelli
    therobzilla@hotmail.com



    Boys and girls of CK5 in AZ, like Fred stated, this is a very serious thing.

    It's time to put up or shutup, this is going to be a fight, and we need to seriously take notice of this.

    I am here to state, that I am going to be involved with this. I plan on spending the rest of my life in AZ, and don't want to loose any trails. I have been through this when I lived in Georgia. They can take these trails, and they will if we don't get involved. I have see in happen when I lived in GA.

    Start saving some extra coinage, put some small dollars away cause it's going to eventually take money.

    The next thing it's going to take is bodies showing up at these meeting. And I mean bodies. Lot's of them. Start posting this link to other boards that you hang out on, the word needs to get spread.

    Don't take this lightly like Fred said, it will be totally unacceptable to loose trails in Florence Junction.

    This is what the Greenies want!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2006
  4. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Hey Rob,

    Could you please keeping me apprised of this when I am on the road since I don't always have internet I am willing to do whatever I can to help with this. I can try and get into AZ when meetings happen and I can probably donate some $$$ if needed. Thanks

    Harley
     
  5. RockinChevy

    RockinChevy 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Just a question, guys.... I'm not familiar with the BLM land closures or such, nor the hard effort from all of us to keep the trails open. But aren't state trust lands supposed to stay open for hunting? If the trails get closed then where else will we hunt?
    Maybe I'm off point here, but wouldn't BLM keep them open if we purchased state land permits and game licences? Won't these funds help any?
    I talked to a buddy at work and he is a firm believer in gun rights and a vivid hunter himself... he's heard of the land closure issues and he asked me to address the question to the CK5 brothers to see what you guys can give for an answer.... I thought the same thing, yet I don't purchase those permits like I should.
     
  6. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Here is how I understand this issue:

    The hunting aspect of it is correct. But remember hunting is not a year round season with the exception of Coyote in AZ. An the hunting, portion of this is quite clear, it's used to get to the hunting spot and from the hunting spot, and the only time allowed off trail is to harvest game.

    Try to explain to the BLM when it's 100 out and you have no gun or licence that you are hunting.

    This change in rule will effect all persons using trails. This means that if the trail is closed then you can't drive to the hunting spot, you will have to walk. No quads, not trucks, nothing but horseback, or on foot.

    Tails will be closed and no vehicle will be allowed on it hunting or not.

    Tell you friend, that this will effect him also, very much.

    This is how I understand this.


    Rob
     
  7. RockinChevy

    RockinChevy 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Thanks Rob, that makes much more sense on how it works. I can see it now...
    My buddy is at FJ right now so I'll share that with him and maybe encourage him to get to that meeting if he really gives a damn.
    I won't do any good there, being hearing impaired and all, I might end up just nodding through the whole thing like every other deaf person does...
    Please keep me posted on the outcome of that meeting guys!
    Thanks!!!
     
  8. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    No problem, don't worry about having to attend yet. It's not that time yet, your use will be in letter writing. We will need everyone to help with that portion.

    What you can do is to cross post this tread/topic to every board you know of that has anything to do with using FJ.

    Hunting board, motorcycle board, anything, help come in the way of informing everyone what is going on.

    Rob
     
  9. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Harley,

    Don't worry, I will keep you in the loop!

    Rob
     
  10. blaza

    blaza 1/2 ton status

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    Call me stupid but Im having a hard time understanding this one.. Every few months somebody raises some hell about closing trails but this seems different. I cant seem to understand who is doing what or what I need to do. Just let me know where I need to show up & when & why.. Ill be there if I can.
     
  11. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Us as well. I'm also thinking as many families that can show up would be better. Shows we are doing family oriented things not just driving trucks around in the desert.
     
  12. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Talked with Michelle on this . We WILL be showing up when its announced the where and when .
     
  13. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    I can understand what you're saying, this type of thing has been ongoing. Thanks for your support, it is needed! I'm not specifically directing this towards you, but you bring up a good point.

    You have to take a long term approach, if you want to be able to have open access to the trails. Yes, you hear of trail closure in the works, but it doesn't happen (or gets reversed)- why? Because someone stood up to the idea. "The boy who cried wolf" doesn't apply. What does is the frog in the pot of cooking water. Before he knows it, it's too late. We need more of us to "stand up" because there's more of "them".

    Yes, it's true, trail closures are on certain folks AGENDAS, and they always have been, and will be. Don't let this discourage you, as you have a RIGHT to your opinion, and the BLM and NFS are MANDATED by law to hear you. This is why they have public scoping meetings, comment periods and the like.

    Over the last few years, as our state expands rapidly in population, many people (enviros mostly) keep pounding the state for more road closures. Yes, sometimes you don't hear the details in the media, but it does happen. Stay involved, and we will have our voices heard. Apathy will lead to no place to wheel.
     
  14. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    I have a morning meeting with Sandee tomorrow/today Sunday. I have talked with her via phone tonight, and I can promise you, this time it's serious.

    In the morning we are going to talk, what is needed, monies, people, letters, and when. She is going to give me the rundown and how bad it really is.

    I expect based on our phone conversation, this time it's no joke. I have committed my time to help her along the path.

    I have gone through this in GA, with both the BLM, and the NFS. It's a real political maze, and you have to stay steady through the process. Like Sandee said, right now it's about the numbers, the more that show up during the first meeting, the better.

    The treehuggers are very strong and the have lot's of funds to hire attorneys and political clout. We don't!

    Why don't we have the same strength as the huggers, I will tell you. Because for the most part the 4wd community and off road community and hunting community and shooting community and all the community that use the forest other than the tree huggers, for the most part have this comment to hart,:"Oh they can't do that to the forest/trails/state land, because the law demands that we have equal access, besides it will never happen to us, and besides, I'm not giving an money to save the trails, someone else will".

    This is about what the statement from our group comes out. On the other hand the tree huggers are all about money, and clubs, and getting political powers to be involved. They are well funded and organized.

    Here is how it happens, once you give up ONE trail, yes I mean ONE trail, the battle is just about over. Then they just keep going after another trail.

    They want to close off Cottonwood Creek Road, if they get this road closed, you can't access the other trails off this road, no way no how, and you can't just start another one. If this trail git's shut down, then all trails between and connected to the trail are off limits. It's not just about a single trail its about all trails that connect to the one trail

    Support and voices are what is needed to start with, and I am expecting most on this site that wheel in AZ to be involved.

    That's all for now.
     
  15. supersize75k5

    supersize75k5 OrganDonorRacing.com

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    thanks for the info, ill be at those meetings;)
     
  16. blaza

    blaza 1/2 ton status

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    Cool Fred, that makes sense.:pimp1:
     
  17. mini_mull

    mini_mull 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for bringing this to our attention Rob, I'm glad I checked in and found it. I've been involved in efforts to change and protect things for hunters with the G&F, but I've never dealt with the BLM. I'm active and know a few influential people that have drove issues before from the AZOD chat forum and I will shoot them some emails. I'm not sure whether to start a new thread though as some hunters have become too green around the gills, and/or have had a bad taste in their mouths left by road-hunters and inconsiderate OHV users interupting their hunts. That's not me by a long shot though. I understand hunters and OHV users would be a much stronger force if we united against greenies instead of fighting amongst ourselves. We need each other in the long run. I can see why the greenies would pick on OHVers first though, since you cannot as easily point out how you spend money to help the environment.
    I wasn't quite sure about which land is included though, is it the land on the east or the west side of the hwy to Florence, or both?
    Whatever needs to be done, count me in.
     
  18. blaza

    blaza 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the information you gave me today Rob.. I have a few questions for you tho that I may just talk with you about on sunday if ya show up.. If not Ill talk to ya about it next week.
     
  19. rhino105amx

    rhino105amx 1/2 ton status

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    Related info about the "Copper Sticker" program. Contact:
    Ian Satter (602) 789-3223
    Public Information Officer

    Arizona Game and Fish Department

    NEWS RELEASE
    For immediate release Oct. 27, 2006

    Public input sought on Arizona's OHV management bill

    The Arizona Game and Fish Department, on behalf of the Off-highway Vehicle Legislative Workgroup and Arizona Game and Fish Commission, is seeking input from the public regarding the "Copper Sticker" off-highway vehicle (OHV) user fee proposed draft legislation. A series of informational open houses will be held around the state in October and November, and written comment will be accepted until Nov. 26.

    The Off-highway Vehicle Legislative Workgroup, a group comprised of OHV recreationists and outdoor user groups, land management agencies, county and local governments, and Game and Fish, have worked together to develop a "copper sticker" program to improve OHV management in Arizona. The draft legislation will enhance funding for OHV programs including the maintenance and development of OHV trails and routes, education and information programs, enhanced law enforcement resources and mitigation for damage to environmental, historical and cultural resources from OHV recreation.

    Informational public meetings describing the OHV user-driven draft legislation highlights will be held from 7 to 9 p.m. on the following dates:

    Monday, Oct. 30 - Prescott, Prescott Valley Council Chambers 7501 E. Civic Circle

    Thursday, Nov. 2 - Pinetop, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 2878 E. White Mountain Boulevard

    Friday, Nov. 3 - Mesa, City Of Mesa Utilities Department 640 North Mesa Drive

    Monday, Nov. 6 - Yuma, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 9140 E. 28th Street

    Tuesday, Nov. 7 - Kingman, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 5325 N. Stockton Hill Road

    Wednesday, Nov. 8 - Flagstaff, Arizona Game and Fish Department regional office 3500 S. Lake Mary Road

    Wednesday, Nov. 15 - Glendale, Glendale Foothills Branch Library 19055 N. 57th Avenue

    Thursday, Nov. 16 - Safford, Eastern Arizona College Bonita Room 1014 N. College Avenue
    The draft legislation can be downloaded and additional information can be obtained from the department's Web site at azgfd.gov/coppersticker.

    Written comment can submitted until Nov. 26 at the meetings, through the Game and Fish Web site or by U.S. mail to OHV Comments, c/o Joe Sacco, Arizona Game and Fish Department, 2221 W. Greenway Road, Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399.



     
  20. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    I will be there for sure .

    Its south of Brown and North of University for those of us on the westside who may come . Mesa Dr. has no exit on the loop 202 , so get off at Mckellips and head east to Mesa Dr and go south . If you take the 60 , there is an exit at Mesa Dr. go North from there .
     

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