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Bearing grease inside a 14FF drum? Why???

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BadDog, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    So, tell me why someone would want to put bearing grease (not gear oil, bearing grease like you get in a tub) inside the drum on a C14FF? I'm talking about dollups of it splattered all over the place. Shoes, springs, backing plate, everywhere... And it didn't come from behind the seal like if someone decided to put bearing grease in the spindle bearings (which run wet). Why would anyone do this?
     
  2. rubbinz raczn

    rubbinz raczn 1/2 ton status

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    i could see someone getting too enthusiastic puting grease behind the shoes where the rub on the backing plate. what you describe doesn't make sense?
     
  3. jakeslim

    jakeslim 1/2 ton status

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    protection from water? rust prevention? hmmm...or they're just /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
     
  4. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Sorry to hijack but when you say the bearings run wet does that mean you aren't supposed to pack them with grease? When I rebuilt my 14 bolt I crammed all the grease I could into my wheel bearings but one of them went out and I was planning on replacing it tomorow. I dont see how adding grease could be harmful in any way but since I'm doing it tomorow, I'd like to know for sure. Thx
     
  5. Eric M.

    Eric M. 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    when you say the bearings run wet does that mean you aren't supposed to pack them with grease? I dont see how adding grease could be harmful in any way but since I'm doing it tomorow, I'd like to know for sure. Thx

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The spindle berings get their lubrication from the gear oil from the center section flowing down the tubes at "wetting" the spindle berings. Some like to pack the berings for extra protection or to get some lubricant on new, dry berings since it will take a little while for the gear oil runs down the tubes. You should atleast dump a fair amount of gear oil on the bering (new or reused) before installing it. I don't think there is any problem with packing them with grease, I've done it a few times with no problems.


    Now, as far as packing the drum with grease ... don't you know that makes the brake shoes last longer, Silly!

    Eric M.

    Just kidding about greasing the shoes. I can see myself getting a phone call from someones lawyer after they tried a stunt like that.
     
  6. Esteban86K5

    Esteban86K5 1/2 ton status

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    The gear oil fro the pumpkin runs all the way through the axle tube and into your wheel bearings. That is what is considered "wet". When I first rebuilt my axles I didn't add any grease but when I took it out for it's first test drive the wheel bearing where squeking like crazy. So I took tehm aprat and added a LITTLE grease to them and put them back together. I have ran it like that for years and they are just fine.
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yes, I've heard of people putting a little (or even alot) of grease in the bearings, that's why I mentioned it in the first post. That's not what this is. I took some pics to show you guys what I found in there. Talk about F'd UP!

    Greased Brakes
     
  8. 70~K5

    70~K5 1/2 ton status

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    When I do wet bearings I pour some gear oil on the bearing before installing them then pump some into the hub before installing the outside bearing. Then before driving I top up the diff.
     
  9. jakeslim

    jakeslim 1/2 ton status

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    dude, thats "leakage" from the diff. Built up over time.
     
  10. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, I've seen that on a couple 10 bolts I've had. 10,000 miles with leaky tube seals and soon you have shoes that look "muddy" with grease. The funny thing is that with time they aren't "grabby" like fresh shoes with oil on them are.
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yeah, I've seen my share of leakage fouled brakes. But look closer at the first 2 pictures. It's kind of hard to see, but look under the spindle, it's basically dry. I don't have a pic inside the drum, but the hub is also dry, as was the back of the seal surface. Also, notice that those are "globs" splattered about with much of the surrounding area basically clean. Particularly, look at the springs which have a heavy dose of this stuff. Leakage gets everywhere, but mostly soaking the lower portions of the backing plate and mechanism, maybe getting all over the place if bad enough. But I've never seen anything like this come from simple leakage of the seal or the cylinder (both of which were dry).
     
  12. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Ahh... I see, I thought you'd already wiped the spindle area off. I've never seen the inside of drum backing plates that clean even with properly working brakes.

    On my 10 bolt... in about 1500 miles it went from perfectly clean to having this black slurry stuff. You could fling it like frosting off your index finger. There was a little trail of oil coming down from the tube seal but the outside of the shoes, the gap between the shoes, and the drum were covered with that goo. Looked just like the stuff you got only it was gritty and there was a [censored] TON of it.


    Weird how people will ruin a perfectly good pair of shoes doing something screw, eh?
     
  13. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I just updated the page with some additional close ups that show the (seemingly) impossible dispersion pattern. Looks like it got sprayed somehow from about 5 feet away. See the little "buggers" (as a friend called them) on the brake shoe backing rib? If flung from the hub it should be on the back of the shoe friction backing plate. If puddled in the drum and spread there should be no way for it to get under there to the rib and the spring.

    I can't explain it at all, I must be missing something because I see no reason for someone to have put grease in there, but I can't account for it based on leakage or anything else...
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Looking at it some more, it looks like the rear springs could have gotten their dosing by the rear brake shoe raking off globs of the stuff which could drop down. But that would mean going backwards, and the rear springs (as well as the buildup on the lower rear shoe) is much heavier than the front. You would think that if it were just raked off by the shoe, then the buildup on the front would be much heavier since that is the direction the drum is spinning over 99% of the time...

    And that still does not explain the little droplets/globs that are splattered all over the rib as though propelled onto the rib from straight out to the side. No smear or run as if it came down from the shoe, same if flung out by the spinning hub. And if flung out by the hub, you would expect a MUCH higher buildup on the backing plate of the friction material itself. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    And one more thing on the "leaking seal" theory, look at the second and third pictures. Notice that the adjuster (one of the few things I could understand having a *little* grease is completely dry, as are the backing plate and e-brake cable/spring below. And of course, the hub (inside the drum) should have been wet with a seal leaking.
     
  15. blaznjon

    blaznjon 1/2 ton status

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    Here`s my guess.The rear wheel cylinder in the picture sure looks new and clean.So how about the wheel cylinder was leak for a long time.Brake fluid soaked into the shoes,they didn`t or coudn`t get it all cleaned up.Brake fluid mixed with brake dust looks kinda like grease. JB
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Well, the odds of being intentional dropped a few points. The passenger side was just normal dry black powder coating everything.

    blaznjon:
    I don't think anyone in their right mind would have replaced a cylinder and put it back together with that kind of mess in there. And it still does not explain the little splatter spots with no general mess like a leak normally causes.
     
  17. TWISTEDJACK

    TWISTEDJACK 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Mine looked and felt just like grease when I had a hub seal go. You couldn't tell where it was leaking, just that it was slung all over the brakes. The heat turns it to grease.
     
  18. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    It definitely looks like old gear oil mixed with brake dust; I see that at work in the dismantle area all the time from heavy truck axles. But that pattern... makes no sense.
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    It definitely looks like old gear oil mixed with brake dust; I see that at work in the dismantle area all the time from heavy truck axles. But that pattern... makes no sense.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That's pretty much exactly where I am on it. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif If it were not for the pattern and clean areas that should not be, I could convince myself that it's just a thicker, heavier bodied version of what I've seen before (i.e. gear oil and brake dust). But I just can't figure it out, and if it's a real problem, and not a clueless person working on the brakes at some point in the past, then I can't fix it if I can't figure out what happened...

    At this point it is back together and working fine on the test drive. I'll drive it a bit and see if it starts grabbing again. If not, I'll give it a 100 miles or so and do a visual just to see if it's reoccurring.
     
  20. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    That reminds me of more than one customer at the parts store putting the"Disc Brake Quiet" stuff on the FRICTION side of the pads,and then they complain the brakes STILL squeaked!! /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
    I wouldnt doubt if some "meknik" thought he was doing a good thing by greasing the backing plates and the brake spring hardware--I have seen other things done that made no sense,and they defended their actions with great passion--I try not to argue with people like that anymore--life's too short! /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     

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