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Discussion in 'Audio' started by ftn96, Dec 28, 2001.

  1. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Tool, Zepplin, Tallica, Hendrix, Soundgarden, etc etc etc.

    I have 2 JL audio 10's for 30 bucks. I need a CD unit that can handle the vibrations, and I have to basic 6x9's. Should I just get another unit and an amp only on the 10's or what?
    SOme direction would be cool.
    Quatlity is not the biggest issue, I just like loud low end grungy, NOT BOOM BOOM, heavy music with no real noticable sound distortion.
    Auuuuhhh, huuuua, price is a factor as well.

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  2. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Go get the Pioneer 500.2 would be perfect. Enough power to where you can be happy without maxing the gain on the amp, causing distortion.

    With that, you should be pretty happy! [​IMG] Drop me a PM if you need any other info... I did a few pretty sweet custom audio jobs back in the day... [​IMG][​IMG]

    <font color=red>GOT MUD???</font color=red>
    My license plate reads:<font color=blue> 8 YR SUV</font color=blue>
    454/TH400/NP205 - 14BFF/D60/w/ 4.10s - 36" TSLs
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    KRAZIE,

    I have to take exception to your comments that a sealed box is the ONLY way to go. There are plenty of ported boxes that sound amazing and do not exhibit the "BOOMY" sound that I hope we are all trying to avoid! [​IMG]

    Case in point, I've got 2 JL Audio 10W3's in my Blazer with carefully constructed ported boxes. They will absolutely flatten your eyeballs with tight, clean bass. I think it's important to let people know that a ported box is going to be more efficient than a sealed box, and that for the same power, his two 10's will play about +6dB LOUDER in ported boxes than a sealed ones. [​IMG]

    In a noisy environment like a K5, that could be very helpful.....also, it would allow him to possibly use a less-expensive/less powerful amp to save a few bucks. Cost was mentioned as a factor too.....

    Just my $.02.....there are a lot of options, I just want to make sure that both sides of the arguement are coverered (Sealed vs. Ported) [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  4. solowookie

    solowookie 1/2 ton status

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    ditch the 6x9's... round speakers sound better - I'd only use 6x9's if I wasn't using subs cuz it'll give you the bottum a little better. just get some round 6" or 6.5" speakers.

    <font color=blue> Jeff - may the force be with you</font color=blue>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Jeffs-Stuff>link to k5's</a>
     
  5. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Im planning on maounting the 10's in the rear side panels. Should I still port them in that non-air tight compartment or what? I dont mind a little boom. Just as long as its being used respectively with the "right" music. NO RAP!!!!! Sorry rappers!!!
    Crips hard bass is what I'd pre-fer though.

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    FTN,

    Sorry you're going to have to get those panels "sealed" up tight regardless of which design you go with. If the enclosure has air leaks, you will get "whistles" as the air rushes in and out.

    Try to find ways to build a "real" 6-sided box for the subs.....you can use the trim panel as the front surface of the box if you want.

    Hope that makes sense.....also, which of the JL Audio subs do you have? I could probably help with some design specs if I knew the model #.....



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  7. solowookie

    solowookie 1/2 ton status

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    yea you might want to make some fiberglass enclosures back there... you can form fit them, and make sure you have the correct internal volumn...

    as far as porting, well that is personal preferrence (and a lot depends upon the box design...) you'd be well served to have your sub boxes made prof.

    (and don't do 6x9's...)

    <font color=blue> Jeff - may the force be with you</font color=blue>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Jeffs-Stuff>link to k5's</a>
     
  8. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    I dont know, I dont have them yet. The guy has them in his closet for me and I've already paid for them just haven't picked them up yet. Im assuming for 2 10's at $30, they are porbably the cheapest ones they make.

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  9. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Greg-

    Well here are my thoughts behind saying not to use a ported box. I will agree with you that it can be louder, and might sound OK, but I don't necessarily believe that a ported box will sound as good as a sealed box with an amp that provides the peak watts (RMS) of the subs. Tons of power in a sealed box, with the correct internal volume will yield a great sound. I have built a 1500W system using Eclipse MRV-1507. The amp was bridged to provide 1500W continuous power to the subs. The Pioneer 9300 series deck took care of crossing-over the subs at 80Hz. I also dynomatted the ENTIRE rear of the vehicle, and the inside of the enclosure. This combo provided enough power to punch the front windshield (intact) out of the seal, honest to god.

    The sound was very tight. The local car audio joint that we bought all the hardware from offered me a job after seeing the install. But they were really convinced after they took a dB meter and it measured 122dB inside the car, sitting on the front console!

    I called my bud up, and asked him to snap some pics. The install is pretty sweet too... I set the amp into the hole in the truck for the spare tire with a plexi-glass cover, carpeted every new surface, lit everything with purple neon triggered by the deck light switch, and designed and fabbed up the 1" MDF box myself.

    Not that I expect Brandon's setup to produce similar results, but sealed boxes CAN produce very tight sound. They do tend to be the route to go when using high-powered amps.

    This is getting wordy but I found <a target="_blank" href=http://www.lightav.com/car/boxes/char.html>this</a> online:
    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


    Sub-30Hz Behavior
    Sealed box designs and single-reflex bandpasses are much better at controlling excursion at extremely low-frequencies (below 30Hz.) For this reason, they can usually handle more power in these frequency ranges than ported designs and dual-reflex bandpass designs which makes them less prone to low-frequency induced speaker damage. At frequencies below the tuning frequency of the port, a woofer in a ported box (or a dual-reflex bandpass) starts to de-couple. This means that the controlling function of the enclosure begins to disappear. The collapse is gradual rather than immediate, but at some point below the tuning of the port, the speaker behaves as if it were operating without an enclosure and suffers from potentially damaging over-excursion. (This is why it is a good practice to use a sub-sonic filter when running a ported enclosure or a dual-reflex bandpass. Some high-quality electronic crossovers like the AudioControl 4XS incorporate a programmable subsonic filter circuit.)
    Related to the loss of enclosure damping, ported and dual-reflex bandpass designs also exhibit higher distortion levels at very low frequencies than sealed or single-reflex bandpass designs. The importance of this is questionable, however, since little program material extends to below 30Hz.
    Sealed enclosures and single-reflex bandpass designs have a rather shallow low-frequency roll-off rate of around 12dB/octave, whereas ported enclosures and dual-reflex bandpasses typically exhibit 18- 24dB/octave roll-off. For this reason, sealed enclosures and single-reflex bandpass boxes can have much higher -3dB points (the frequency at which the output dips 3dB below the reference efficiency of the speaker) than ported designs while still producing very good ultra-low frequency output.


    <hr></blockquote>

    This is why I use enclosed boxes, but as stated, it depends on many variables including: type of subs, the output power of your amp, your style of music, your personal sound preferences... etc.

    I think I have said enough... just to show that there is nothing wrong with sealed enclosures, expecially in high-powered systems.

    Hope I didn't go off too badly ! [​IMG] And by all means, I don't claim to know everything, so please correct me if I am wrong...

    <font color=red>GOT MUD???</font color=red>
    My license plate reads:<font color=blue> 8 YR SUV</font color=blue>
    454/TH400/NP205 - 14BFF/D60/w/ 4.10s - 36" TSLs
     
  10. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Krazie,

    No offense taken! [​IMG]

    The excerpt about the "sealed" vs. "ported" designs appears to be 100% correct in it's description of the PROs and CONs of each. Sealed boxes are simple, and produce good low end extension but require substantial power to achieve a given SPL target. Ported boxes offer good low end (to their tuning frequency) and can achieve the same SPL target with a less powerful amp.

    When I read the initial post.....(and the music preferences) I envisioned a system that had to have substantial "punch"....but not one that could play "flat" down to 20Hz. It's really unnecessary for that type of music and I doubt that the JL Audio subs he's got (maybe 10W0's) could EVER get to 20Hz regardless of the enclosure! (JL's website shows a -3dB point of 42Hz in a sealed box, and 28Hz in a ported one)

    When I built my K5 system, I knew that I'd have to compete with a LOT of road noise, and a LOT of engine noise, and that I would lose a TON of volume when the top was off. This was not going to be a "finesse" system....it had to have some serious "BALLS"!!! [​IMG] I think that FTN96 is probably looking for something similar, which is why I suggested a ported box as an "economical" but appropriate match for the musical tastes and desired volume levels.

    It's too bad you didn't live closer....I'd like to check out that "windshield popping" system in person! Maybe give you a demo on my "ported K5 system" and see if I could make a believer out of you! [​IMG]




    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  11. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    I don't know why you all hate 6x9's, I have pioneer premiere 3 ways and they rock! clean, no distorsion. I've heard my friends blazer with 6" rounds and my out crank his, he has name brand too. I just don't understand why everyone hates 6x9's but I love mine and everyone that hears my system loves them too.
    Ben 87 jimmy
     
  12. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hey wuzzup Ben....?

    Got "ripped off" on my Christmas in Cape Elizabeth, ME......NO SNOW!!!! [​IMG]

    I coulda stayed in California if I wanted to look at green grass! LOL



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  13. solowookie

    solowookie 1/2 ton status

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    sealed subs are suppose to be more accurate, but I still think a lot of it comes down the the box builder... that is an argument that has be going on for years, and probably won't end anytime soon...

    my personal pref is a sealed box, but thats just me.

    <font color=blue> Jeff - may the force be with you</font color=blue>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Jeffs-Stuff>link to k5's</a>
     
  14. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Right on! Thats it, BALLS Thats what Im talking about.
    Black Sabbath as loud as it will go playing Electric Funeral!!!!!!
    Zepp's I cant quit you babe! Or Rush's Tom Sawyer, YYZ, Limelight or.........or DAmn I could go on and on. Screw clarity (to a certain extent) I want balls to the wall with "minimul" distortion. The music will have enough distortion.[​IMG]

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  15. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    FTN96,

    ALL-RIGHTY-THEN!!! I stand firmly behind my strategy.....let's port those suckers and get you something that'll "rip-yer-face off and make your ears bleed"!!! [​IMG]

    Seriously, once you know the model # (I'm guessing that they're gonna be 10W0's) I can give you some examples of what a ported box will need to look like and what the frequency response (and loudness) might end up being.



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  16. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    cool,
    I'll hit you up as soon as I get those suckers. I'll also need to pick up an amp. Any recomendations on those? Cheap my brotha, cheap!!!!

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  17. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    FTN,

    You do mean "inexpensive" do you....not CHEAP!!! [​IMG]

    I'd get on e-Bay and find a good, used amp. There's not much risk buying a used amp (no moving parts) and you'll get something NICE for the same money that you'd spend on something NEW, but MEDIOCRE.

    I like a/d/s amps....some guys swear by the old PPI (Precision Power) stuff, or Orion, or Rockford Fosgate.....just be sure to avoid the "off brand" stuff that claims 1000 Watts for $100. That stuff is bad news.



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  18. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, my bad..... Inexpensive!!!!

    Still hoping the GOV'T will ban the use of loud stereos with RAP music. [​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  19. solowookie

    solowookie 1/2 ton status

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    try this site;
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.cbrstereo.com>cbrstereo.com</a>

    great price on stuff esp. rockford... (new stuff too)

    <font color=blue> Jeff - may the force be with you</font color=blue>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Jeffs-Stuff>link to k5's</a>
     
  20. Scooter

    Scooter 1/2 ton status

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    Greg .. I'm one of the ones that swears by the older stuff .. PPI Art Series, Zapco, Phoenix Gold MPS series, the a/d/s stuff is really good to .. matter of fact, I still have a couple Orion GX series amps (and the bridging module), a sony 5540, Punch 75HD, and a couple other dust covered old parts (LOL) .. To me the new stuff just doesnt seem to have as much oomph or sound quality to it.

    BTW -- I think that system you put together for your 72 is just plain awesome!!

    Scot in KC, MO
    87 GMC - 4", 33s, 3.73 10B/14SF
    http://community.webshots.com/user/sdb95
     

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