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Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Z3PR, Aug 27, 2005.
That make me want to get a Diesel soo bad
Actually it is sold here http://www.biodieselamerica.org/biosite/index.php?id=10,0,0,1,0,0 and the price is $2995 plus shipping and that is for the basic kit. Still very interesting idea, able to make fuel in your garage for about 70 cent per gallon. It would take a couple years, lots of driving, and continuing raise in fuel prices to pay off. But afterwards you would have a great resource. I have been looking at this kit for a while now and it is a great way to go.
Yes but has anyone actually run the biodeisel. It smells like a french fry cooker. Since that is what it was used for. Not me I don't want to smell like a fry cook. I prefer the stench of petroleum products And due to all the dang federal regulations on waste. None of the places around here would let you just "have" the used oil.
That Trucks! show (which will be on today) got me to thinking about buying a diesel as my next vehicle. I'll bet you can build a setup for less than a tenth of what they'll selling it for. It's not that complicated of a process or setup.
using their numbers
kit cost $2995
biodiesel cost/gal $0.70
Avg price of diesel as of 8/22/2005
the breakeven point is 1593.09 gallons by my calculations. (will be fewer gal if price is higher, and more gal if price is lower)
say you get 20 mpg in your diesel, that gives you 31,861.7 miles of driving. looking at that, it actually seems feasible to break even in about a year.
stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
p.s. if i feel like it, i may calculate the same for the double output model if you and a buddy went in on it. if i feel like it.
Diesel out here is running about $3 to $3.10 a gallon. I think it is because almost every soccer mom has a damn diesel excursion. So technically you would break even earlier.
well, i felt like it. so here goes
same numbers as above save price of kit $3995
breakeven point would be 2125 gal
split the cost down the middle with your buddy yields
$1997.5 for the equipment and 1062.5 gal
and using 20 mpg again gives you 21,250 miles to drive.
very concieveable to happen within a year.
again, these are my calculations and could contain errors. it just doesn't seem like its worth doing if it doesn't involve differential calculus
For 3000 dollars,I could buy enough diesel fuel to drive my truck 10 years or more..I dont drive much more than 5000 miles a year!--and I have other vehicles to drive too,so not all those miles would be in the diesel truck..
I asked several fast food joints here if they would give me their used oil--all of them are required by law to keep records of how much oil they buy,and who takes it away(all have subcontractors taking it away,and they sell it to Bio-Diesel companies)..they have to prove how they disposed of it--even "Ma and Pa" type food places are not exempt--if they use oil,it must be accounted for...this may not be true everywhere,but it is in my area..and thats all I care about!..bottom line?--if you want free oil,you wont get it here!--a few places DO give it away,but technically its illegal to do so,and they have more guys wanting it than they have to dispose of..
This does not take into consideration the effects burning something the engine was not designed for will do to it!..it might clog injectors,harm the injection pump,etc.I can picture the sludge building up in the rings and crancase! --.Plus it can't be used in cold weather..I dont really see the big advantage to using waste vegatable oil..maybe in an 18 wheeler,that consumes much more than a pickup...I think its a waste of time to pursue it for the "average Joe"...too complicated and difficult..
If you live in Texas,or Pennsylvania,you'd be better off drilling your own well.. I think its a disservice to make people think its a viable alternative,when you cant even GET the used oil to begin with,in many cases..
BUT--I wonder how much "Canola" oil or "Peanut Oil" costs per gallon??...if its less than 3 bucks,It might be worth buying!.. --and if Olive oil burns like diesel,you could always plant an olive tree!...I'd go for Hemp Oil myself...
Just to be clear I wasn't knocking it, I really want one. I was just trying to say for me it would take a couple years to recoup but still sounds like a great idea. I am also looking at trying to build the setup myself as I have seen done on a couple sites. Now if I could just find the perfect deal on a cummins
But would you be using that too make Bio-Diesel ??
That is what is all boils down to for me. We did all the calculations you could due but they were all useless because you still have to get the base - vegetable oil. It was going to cost us more to get the oil then it was to buy the diesel and that was not even adding the cost of the kit and process to make it.
Just the lack of vegetable oil. I laughed my arse off when I saw that trucks show and how he just went and picked up a "free" 55 gals of oil. It isn't happening here in NM. I thought it would be great because my neighbor owns 5 McDondalds but I would have had to get a state license and the insurance just to pickup the oil. In todays society everything is hazardeous materials in the governments eyes.
It's funny that people don't even learn about alternative fuels until their affected in the pocket book. I gave a business presentation to my professor in Community College and he was blown away by the information I presented, acted as if he never heard of biodiesel. Biodiesel runs off a renuable resource, the main reason the Government doesn't want us using it right now. I've been looking at biodiesel as an alternative for the last three years. I'm glad other people are seeing the light. And as for smelling burnt petroleum , I'd rather smell donuts or french fries.
And as for converting your diesel to biodiesel, it costs way less than $3000. I'm bummed my new burb used to have the 6.2 diesel which was getting the conversion, but when I bought the truck I later found out the PO put in a 350.
But you would be hungry all the time
For the record, I am curious to know what states are stringent about what happens to WVO? I was under the impression that many restaurants have to pay to have their WVO hauled off. I understand that it could be a dumping hazzard if disposed of improperly. Another question is who makes these rules/laws about who and how WVO is disposed? Is it Federal, state, local? What about some small one light town in the middle of no where, TX. I doubt the DQ has to have their WVO taken away by a licensed, registered, tagged oil nazi.
I used to work in a resteraunt where we used grease and veggie oil. I of course had the great job of cleaning the fryers. The grease we drained and poured into a metal tank out back and the company had to pay a guy to come suck it out. The veggie oil we didn't have to do anything specific with. We could pour it in with the grease or whatever. We usually gave it to the cook who strained it and used it to deep fry turkeys. The big thing is that many food joints use lard and oil and just pour them into the tank out back (next time you're at a fast food place you can see the tank" The grease has to be disposed of this way but to my knowledge the oil doesn't. BTW we never had to record anything about how much was disposed of for either the grease or oil.
BUT of COURSE I'd only use it for a diesel substitute! --you cant do much else with it--can you?? ..
I bet thats PART of the reason hemp will never be legal--too much potential for a free fuel source!...the government does not recognize the fact that hemp is NOT exactly pot!..its good for making rope,cloth,and the oil--but is a poor choice if you want a "buzz"!..
Useless fact:----both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew hemp on their plantations..
have checked that site out in the past. seems as one can make thier own processor a LOT cheaper
I wouldn't get too excited about biodiesel.
Biodiesel benefits challenged
according to this
Rich Moskowitz, assistant general counsel and regulatory affairs counsel for the American Trucking Assns. (ATA) told Fleet Owner Newsline :
“An area of concern is there is no cap on the percentage of biodiesel to be mixed with petroleum-based diesel. “While we believe biodiesel has positive attributes, we are concerned that a high percentage blend will create operation challenges,” Moskowitz said. “From a commercial standpoint we don’t support [20% biodiesel blends] because we’re concerned with cold weather performance, and the energy value. A [2% blend] fuel is favorable as an appropriate additive to restore the lubricity lost in producing ULSD [ultra-low sulfur diesel] fuels.”
I would disagree that biodiesel does anything for lubricity. there's no national standard for lubricity, because the the ASTM tests for lubricity are considered to be inaccurate and inconclusive, as they do not take combustion temps into account. How do they know what "enough" lubricity is, if they can't measure for it?
I've read tons of SAE reports, manufacturer statements, etc, and 2 -5% blends are all that are recommended. At that level, it's not doing much to help
anyone but the farmers. reality is the emissions effects of biodiesel are all over the map, ( EPA tests show it raises NOx levels) and engine heat turns it into a honey colored goo on the piston rings. And cold weather turns it into elmers glue. yuck.
It's hard to find information that goes against the current favor being shown biodiesel, but it's out there. The growers and sellers of it have done a great job influencing the gov't policymakers, so the tax breaks and incentives being showered on it were just a matter of time.
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