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BlazerK5 Stereo Project, Help!

Discussion in 'Audio' started by taterblazer, Nov 25, 2001.

  1. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    This was my original idea:
    Q-Logic Kickpanels, Diamond Hex 5-1/4 components
    Infinity Perfect Sub
    Alpine or Blaupunkt high end CD
    PPI 480 amp, 80 X 4, 320 bridged

    Now I'm not so sure I want to drop that much money and that I need kick panels so badly. I was able to "borrow" a 4 channel 40w amplifier from my brother so that would cut costs. My door panels have zero space for mounting speakers. About 1-5/8" behind the plastic. This is now what I'm considering:
    -Lower end Pioneer or Blaupunkt CD or low end Alpine.Anyone tried the Blau, they look really cool and have a ton of features?
    -Image dynamics 10" sub
    -Diamond M3(bottom line) 6.5" components
    -Free 40w amp for speakers , 80 bridged for sub

    Mount the 6.5's and the tweats in the panel next to the passenger seat in the back. Point the tweets up and forward some towards the front seats. Sub tossed in the back. Will this sound good? I had also considered putting the tweats under the dash pointing up at the glass but am concerned about imaging problems. Been told that I should mount the tweats within a foot of the mids. As far as kicks go, I know that they would give the best sound but the price and the fact that they would get mud and water on them is a detraction. Are they worth it anyways? Would I gain anything from adding 3-1/2's under the dash pointing up towards the glass? Will one 10" sub be enough, it seems like everyone else is running at least two? I like listening to modern rock, classic rock, techno and some softer stuff. Not a SPL boomer. Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Tater,

    I know that you're trying to keep the budget tight, but I think one of the big mistakes would be trying to "skimp" on the CD Head Unit. It is SO important to get a good "4V Pre-Out" (4 volts or better) to really take advantage of the rest of the equipment you want to buy. If you get a "cheapie" you will be constantly fighting sound-quality issues, blown speakers, alternator whine, and other probs associated with dirty power, and low S/N ratio.

    Here's what I would suggest:

    1. Spend the money on better quality deck than you had planned...this will be worth it later on.
    Get one with a built-in amp, as well as pre-amp outs to drive a subwoofer amp.
    2. Speakers - Do whatever you think best meets you needs for sound, and location in truck. For now, you can use the built-in amp from the deck to power them...that will save you from having to buy an amp for them.
    3. Subwoofer and Amp - Do it if you still have money left over. If your truck is fairly well insulated and carpeted, a single 10-incher might be enough. Most people forget that a single 10" speaker in a PORTED enclosure will play just as loudly as TWO 10" speakers in a sealed box. The ported enclosure adds about +3dB of efficiency to the speaker....

    UPGRADES:

    When you get the money, you could power the satellite speakers with a dedicated amp...that will give you cleaner sound, and louder too....if you find that you are lacking in that area.

    ----------------------------------

    As always, there are as many opinions about WHAT to buy, as there are PRODUCTS for sale! [​IMG] Get all the advice you can, but let your OWN EARS be the judge of what is right for you. [​IMG]


    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  3. LKJR

    LKJR 1/2 ton status

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    Tater,

    Another option you may consider as well is buying some things used, but do a LOT of research first, I buy a lot of my stuff off ebay just for the sole fact of cost, and that I can do installs myself, you lose the ability to take it back to a store and complain if it dosen't sound like you expected but if you know what you want then the price makes a difference. For example I'm running a sony cdx-c910 in my sonoma now. Retail was $900 - $1100 (Sony's TOP of the line, same as c90 now) I paid $175 for it off an ebay auction that didn't meet it's reserve of $200. Sound is amazing. I did my amps the same way. So retail vs. what I paid for my stuff has big difference, so if you choose this route you do take some risks but you can buy a lot better equipment on a smaller budget.

    Like em big and topless
    Excuse me...Would you mind removing your import from under my chevy?
     
  4. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the advice guys! Greg I think your right on that head unit. Alpine seems to have some nice models I'm looking at and they aren't to outrageous. Sounds like a 10" sub in a sealed box won't be enough, would two 10's be better? Everything I can find on the other types of boxes says they are harder to use. Maybe I'll do something close to my original idea except not use the Hex components and the kickpanels. That'll shave bout 250 off the install.
     
  5. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Tater,

    My advice on the subs stays the same....You will get +3dB more output by using two 10's in a sealed box, instead of a single 10" in a sealed box.....BUT, you pay TWICE as much money!

    It would be more cost effective to just stay with the single 10" speaker and go to a little extra trouble to design and build a ported enclosure for it. It WILL play just as loud as those two "sealed" 10's....there are some tradeoffs having to do with power handling, and ultimate low frequency smoothness....but from what I can tell of your objectives, this seems like a nice solution for you.

    Think it over. By the way, where are you located? I'm in San Jose, CA and if you're anywhere nearby you can come listen to my setup to get ideas....I've got 2 ported 10's (equivalent to 4 sealed 10's!) and it will make your vision blurry! [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  6. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks Greg, bet your system could give you a nose bleed! Or at the very least shake the panties right off the girls. I'm up in Boise ID so no chance of stopping in at San Jose this year. Two 10's might not be to bad an idea, some places have two fer specials on JL and RoquerFausgate. Could run two 2 ohms in series. That would work. Fausgate doesn't excite me to much to tell the truth. They do seem like solid products though. Looking at the Ultimate and the Diamond for the woofer right now. Image Dynamics and JL are other options to.
     
  7. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    Would 3-1/2's do any good up under the dash reflecting off the glass or is that a bad idea?
     
  8. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Bouncing the sound off the windshield is not always "ideal" from a sound quality perspective, but the reality is that we each have to balance that "ideal setup" with certain practical considerations. I think your '88 has speaker grilles already up there in the dash...so that makes it a lot easier for you.

    The hardest challenge for you in my opinion, is going to be getting those subs to seamlessly "blend" into a 3.5" speaker. The subs will play all the low stuff up to about 85Hz, and the 3.5" speakers will need to play everything else (85Hz and up!). I think the challenge will be getting a nice smooth transistion in sound without the feeling that some frequencies are just getting "lost".

    Obviously get the highest quality 3.5" speaker you can find if you decide to go with that size....it will be asked to do a LOT of work in the system. Then you may be able to play with the cutoff frequencies of the subs (maybe let them play a little higher, like 100Hz) to try to fill in for those 3.5"ers. It's going to be a little bit of listening &amp; tweaking until you get something that sounds "right" to you....but I think you can do it.

    Also, in case you hadn't already planned to do this, be sure to use some sort of "bass blockers" on those 3.5" speakers. They really should NOT be trying to play any frequencies below 85Hz and it will cause them to work unneccessarily hard, and will cause distortion. Putting in a bass filter will allow them to play in their more comfortable range, and they will need less power (which is GOOD if you'll be powering them off the CD player).

    There are a lot of little things that can make a difference....if I think of any more, I'll let you know. [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  9. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks Greg! Blazers have a lot of room but can be challenging for speaker placement up front. This is what I've decided to try for now unless my mind changes towards the kick panels. 6.5's behing the driver and passenger seats on either wall. Start the tweet near the 6.5's and move them around the front cab til it sounds best.
     
  10. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Tater,

    As another "general rule" you should try to keep the midranges and tweeters as close together as possible. They are responsible for all the "staging" and "imaging".....and if you have the mids behind you and the tweets up front the sound will seem to get pulled all over the place....

    Vocals are also in that critical region of frequencies too. The more careful you are about positioning those speakers close to each other....the more likely you are to have a nice "focused" voice singing right in front of you....maybe out by the hood ornament if you are real lucky! [​IMG]

    It's neat when you can make the sound BIGGER than the space you are actually listening in....that is truly the challenge of good audio.



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  11. taterblazer

    taterblazer 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks Greg and gang! I'm going to put the other speaks in first then if I think I need it ad 3-1/2's in the front powered from the head unit using the built in high pass filter in the Pioneer. Dual 10's it is to for the sub. Don't want to come up short in that area. Image dynamics are looking sweet.
     

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