Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

buggy springs

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by bandit, Apr 9, 2001.

  1. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    anyone here run waht is called buggy springs or goofy springs iv been thinking about puting htem on the front of my b;lazer for better articlulation jsut woundering about the down side to them

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     
  2. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Those are usually run only in the back. I've never seen them on the front. They do flex well but you have to provide some sort of lateral stabilization to keep the axle located. This usually means a custom setup like a wishbone 3 link or a 4 link.

    Besides, there are easier ways to get the front to twist, look at this:
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com/photo.html>http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com/photo.html</A>


    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  3. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    my thoguth was on the rear part of the front spring this would really not let anything get to far out of the way for the front shacklles are still teh just rear would drop and if i used a heavy spring as the goofy one it wouldnt go side to side just a thought looking at rust ucket know

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     
  4. Brady

    Brady 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 6, 2000
    Posts:
    628
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Parachute,Co
    Jeeps run them in front all the time.MORE makes a kit for the jeeps for the front.I would box the frame on a blazer though atleast where the buggy spring is mounted.I would also make some sort of pin setup for it.So you could pin it up for street driving.There is a guy in the reader ride section that has buggy springs in front on a Blazer also has some sort of drop shackle in the back.This thing flexes!!!Can,t remember his name off hand.Brady

    '73Beautiful Disaster <A target="_blank" HREF=http://beautifuldisaster.coloradok5.com>http://beautifuldisaster.coloradok5.com</A>
     
  5. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    i was planing on boxing the frame any ways the pin idea is good idea the blazer doenst se much road use but when it did it would prouble be nice on teh back i was going to flip the shackle then make a revolr shackle but it would drop down the like the revolor it would hjsut twist so i wouldnt lose axle weight

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Interesting, oh well, I guess I've just never noticed them in the front. Thanks for the correction Brady...

    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  7. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    found it http://www.grantbowers.coloradok5.com not sure how to do a link thats what i want to do but the rear will ahve differnt shackles i will also shorten the frame one a blazer (cut the frame off tell teh rear shackles move the gas tank put a pickup cab and a lot more [​IMG]

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     
  8. JunkYardCrawler

    JunkYardCrawler 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Posts:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    i think it was bigdaddy89 that did the buggies on his rig. he has some pictures of the whole thing. i'm thinking about doing it myself.
     
  9. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    i think it would work really well ive been doing some major thining on this one knwo i f i can figure a way to fix the twized factor in the frotn id be set

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     
  10. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ok, now I know where I went wrong. I took a look at this site mentioned earlier.
    http://www.grantbowers.coloradok5.com
    I've seen those type of drop leafs or, I guess they are called buggy springs and goofy leafs??? I just didn't know what they were called. When I saw "buggy springs" and "goofy leafs" I thought of the 3/4 elliptic spring systems which is what I was talking about all this time. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. I apologize for the information that I gave which was not on topic.

    I’ve never used or played with a system like this but my personal thoughts are that it does not seem like it would help that much. The weight of the axle and tire is being used to bend the spring down in order to get the extra flex. Without the weight of the truck pushing the tire down, the only weight/pressure being used to generate friction is being absorbed by the spring. Obviously if it has any weight at all pushing down it would seem more useful than a tire spinning in the air (whose weight would be transferred to the other tires improving their traction anyway) but I don't know how much good it would be.


    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  11. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2000
    Posts:
    3,035
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    I know Bigdaddy89 runs them . . . gets some sweet flex! (and its front buggy springs) [​IMG]

    - SlyDog [​IMG]
     
  12. bigdaddy89

    bigdaddy89 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 18, 2000
    Posts:
    422
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phx, Az
    I have them on the front and they work very well. I think I am getting around 2ft of travel on the front. I ran some sleeves in my frame where I put the bolts through to keep the strength. It takes a while to install, plus alot of drilling.(mucho bits) I just got some more pictures this past weekend that will show the suspension a little better.(closeup) When I get them developed, I will post them for you.
    David

    GOT ROCKS?
     
  13. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arvada, CO
    Two things that will increase the frontend travel Buggy leafs and a Longer spring. I for one don't like the Buggy leaf. I had them on my cruiser and it just drove awful. Maybe it was the way I set it up I don't know but I will not ever run them. You guys run what ever you want. I am not putting anyone down that is my opinion. Now that the is out of the way. The longer spring that I used will work as good as the buggy leaf and give a very nice ride. Since the blazer was stolen I have not had a chance to look for another one but My buddy is installing 50.5" top springs on his blazer. This is 1" shorter than mine. We will see how they work. Remember the longer the spring the longer the shackle you will have to use. The ideal shackle lenght for the cherokee spring I think is 7.25" center to center. The springs that my buddy has the shackle will be 6.75" center to center. We will see how well this works. If you want I will post some cad drawings of a 47" spring and then a 51.5 spring and you can see how much more travel you will get with the longer spring. The thickness of the leaf also will play a big roll in how it articulates. The thinner the top leaf the better the articulation.

    Donovan
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com>http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com</A>
    Bigger is Better
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Hey Donovan, still no news on the rustbucket eh? Too bad.

    Bandit, in case you didn't catch it, the link I posted for you earlier is Donovan's rig that was stolen. There was a whole long thread about a month ago where Donovan explained all about how he set it up. I made the initial post by pulling out an off-topic series of messages from another thread. Nice stuff and there was quite a long discussion about it. I also tend to agree with Donovan about that "buggy spring" setup, I'm not too turned on by them but there do seem to be some people who like them and believe in them. To me, unless you can get some decent weight pushing down on the drooping wheel, I would rather carry it which transfers more weight to the rest of the wheels (increasing their traction on most surfaces) and you don't have to worry about stuffing the dangling wheel into a hole which can break things...


    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  15. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Posts:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Clearfield Ut.
    BadDog,
    In my garage tests. If I pack the LF tire up into the fenderwell, the spring pad will hit the bump stop and the leveage of the LF tire that is about 21" away from the bump stop wil force the RF tire down. Does that make sence? The bump stop ends up working like a piviot point like on a see-saw. So the RF tire does get forced down with some of the weight of the blazer on it, just not directly with the spring.

    Donovan,
    What is this about a shackle length matched to springs? Is it to stricktly clear the frame? Or does it have something to do with arch/shackle angle? (I've installed 52" rear springs on the front of mine, moved the front mounts and added longer shackles to clear the frame)

    Twiztid

    .
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Hmm, good point, I didn't think about the leverage thing. I guess that could make some difference. It would be nice to get some actual contact pressure numbers when the short spring starts to drop and see how fast it drops off.

    On the shackles, there were two things discussed on the old thread where I first saw Donovan's setup. One, of course, is to clear the frame. The other was to help with the ride and spring deformation. With a longer shackle angled back to the spring eye, the action of spring compression is converted to leverage that actually aids in de-arching the spring. The reverse is true when the axle starts down in droop. The downward pull causes the angled shackle to move toward the front increasing the pressures on the spring which ultimately result in increased arch. This affectively reduces the spring rate a bit without running softer, weaker springs. Now, that may not be a perfect explanation but that is what I think I understand about it. We discussed this at length on an earlier thread.

    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Oh, and one other thing. If you visualize what happens in droop you will see that without the shackle beginning it's movement angled back, you will reach a point where the axle pulling down on the spring can not arch it any more because the spring is pulling straight along the shackle. Since the front is mounted solid, the axle can not move down any further without bending the spring into a V rather than a smooth arch. The net result of angling the shackle back would be a deeper droop with the spring remaining in a normal arch. This in turn results in better articulation with less stress on the springs (I think, unless I'm missing something). I'm no expert on this and I've never done it, I'm just trying to think/visualize my way through to an understanding. This is something I have every intention of trying on my current project as soon as I get around to it.

    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  18. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arvada, CO
    No word on the Blazer, but thanks for asking. Look at this link and you can see what the longer spring can do for you. I think it will answer a lot of questions. http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com
    Bigger is Better
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2001
    Posts:
    7,777
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Hmm, just for everyone's benefit, here is the old thread where we talked about Donovan's setup.
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.coloradok5.com/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=blazer4x4&Number=106380&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1>http://www.coloradok5.com/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=blazer4x4&Number=106380&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1</A>

    Bad Dog

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, NP205, D60/C14, 4.56
    Coming soon: 4" lift, 40" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  20. bandit

    bandit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ellensburg Washington
    Hmm great info i lvoe this place beening able to pick at others minds

    Bandit
    (Your right i dont understand the jeep thing)
     

Share This Page