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cage idea

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 69K5, Oct 18, 2003.

  1. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    i saw this in petersons or 4 wheeler i dont remember which. its from poison spyder customs. what do yall think of using the support things that run down beside the dash on my 69 k5? I dont want to loos funcionality (SP??) check out the pic to see it. i looked at dom tubing. i think it was 120 for a 20" stick or so.maybe im remembering wrong. i wanted to tie it into the windshield frame but this seemed like a better idea.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    69k5
     
  2. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    That looks pretty interesting. Of coarse the question of strength will be posed by a few/many. Mines a DD so laying on my roof would be a really bad day /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif But something is better than nothing, which is what I got now. Do you know what those uprights are made of? Thickness? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  3. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'm in agreement, its probably made of like 1/2" plate and has an angle on it which will help strength. I think for say my Daily Driver K5 that I want to put a cage in just in case that it may work fine.
     
  4. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    that would work for a light vehicle like a jeep...and if you increased the size of the plate in proportion to the weight of your K5...it could work...maybe weld some square tubing into the corner of that plate and drill holes through the tube bigger than the hole in the plate, and bolt it on?....the dash on my 86 goes farther to the opening than a jeep dash too though..dont know about yours..
     
  5. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    I think this was mentioned a while back and someone brought up the point that the way jeeps are structured it would work for them but not for blazers. It had to do with the way the plate is bolted to the cab as shown in the pic. Because that is not a structurally sound area in a blazer it doesn't give enough support. If you just ran tube down to the floor it should provide plenty of support for the windshield area with the rest of the design shown.

    I just went thru getting a cage made and learned a lot from Mike about design and strength. Triangulation is the key.

    BTW, I think there's a table on the Echobit site that compares strengths of tubing. DOM doesn't provide that much of an increase over HREW, especially if the cage is correctly triangulated.
     
  6. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    That looks pretty interesting. Of coarse the question of strength will be posed by a few/many. Mines a DD so laying on my roof would be a really bad day /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif But something is better than nothing, which is what I got now. Do you know what those uprights are made of? Thickness? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    3/16 laser plate WTH is that?
    clicky to page

    [ QUOTE ]
    I think for say my Daily Driver K5 that I want to put a cage in just in case that it may work fine.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    this is what im thinkin. i dont rock crawl so if it rolls its not gonna be a slow one. it would just make me feel better than full convertible and the nothing i have now.

    [ QUOTE ]
    that would work for a light vehicle like a jeep...and if you increased the size of the plate in proportion to the weight of your K5...it could work...maybe weld some square tubing into the corner of that plate and drill holes through the tube bigger than the hole in the plate, and bolt it on?....the dash on my 86 goes farther to the opening than a jeep dash too though..dont know about yours..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    good idea. when i get home tommorow from drill i will check mine out. i think i might could squeeze it in there.maybe if had a piece of tubing up to the dash and that just to get passed the dash. mine is a dail driver so appereance and functionalness (is that a word) are important

    i full expect to her from several people about safety. thats why i put it up here. im not an engineer so i didnt know anything axcept its not round. im suprised greg hasnt popped up. he pretty big on safety and thats a good thing.

    69k5
     
  7. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If you just ran tube down to the floor it should provide plenty of support for the windshield area with the rest of the design shown.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    do you mean similar to what i was saying here? or running on all the way up? which i dont want to do.

    [qoute] i think i might could squeeze it in there.maybe if had a piece of tubing up to the dash and that just to get passed the dash [/qoute]


    i think i am gonna go with hrew although people argue for both.

    69k5
     
  8. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    1.75 HREW is what I'm doing.
     
  9. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    what kind of price are you getting? i dont know much about pricing tubing there is only one place in monroe to but it and they are @##holes unless your a contractor. they dont like dealing with y nickle and dime stuff.
     
  10. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    What I meant was scrap the plate idea and run a hoop in the front, like this:
    [​IMG]

    The flat plate in the jeep pic is actually secured by the bolts on the side. That area is apparently (IIRC) a sturdy structural part of the jeep. In a blazer that is not the case. The strength in the blazer is at the cab supports under the floor (as attachment points go). Of course there's the debate on securing to the frame or just to the body.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  11. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'm doing like you showed Skigirl. I'm conflicted however about just going to the cab support or to the frame. I'm replacing rockers with 4x2" rectangle tube and then reinforcing with 2x2" between the subframe and rocker bar. I am also replaing floorboards(where cage would mount) with plate steel so I can't decide.
     
  12. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    skigirl

    thats what i thought you meant. i was wanting to run mine closer to the pillars than that. i may end up having to though. i wonder whaqt makes that a structural point on the jeep?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    there is nothing the on a k5. i just rippeed a k20 down piece by piece and its just molded sheetmetal there.

    69k5
     
  13. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    69K5: Yea, when I first starting planning the cage with Mike I thought that the position of that hoop would bother me too. But I gotta say, it hasn't gotten in the way once. haven't hit it with my foot, it doesn't block the e-brake or vents, etc. It really has pretty well disappeared for me.

    Could be wrong but IIRC there's a support pillar in the jeep that that plate is bolted to. We have an A pillar too, but it sits too far forward to be of use for what you're looking to do.
     
  14. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    Sled dog, I had the same questions when I started looking at a cage. I think Russ (Baddog) knows a lot about cages and he did one attached to the frame. And Mike (BorregoK5) who did mine preferred to attach only to the body. He wanted to weld plate to the floor but I alrady have some pretty nice Line-x in there, so we opted to bolt a top plate (welded to the tubing) to a plate underneath the bed floor. Different sized plates upper and lower so they don't shear thru in a rollover.

    I think attaching to body and not frame is plenty safe. My seats are attached to the cage. So if the frame twists up or the body comes loose from the frame I would be in the cage. If I wasn't attached to a twisting mess of frame that would be fine with me.

    The other viewpoint if that the cage being attached to the frame creates a strong shell and the frame is now jus an integral part of the cage. Just as valid I suppose (not an expert by any means). I went with the body attachment idea.

    I also have 4x4iron sliders, and they're attached only to the body and provide huge support. Used 1 1/2 tube. Becasue of the flex these trucks have, it was recommended to attach only at the body. I can support the truck on those sliders no prob.

    Sounds like your setup would do fine with attachments to the body. But I know that you have to mount some points of the cage at the supports, those are the strongest areas.

    My cage was designed to handle higher speed rollovers (like off the road in a snowstorm) so I think that you'd be fine whatever you decide as long as you have excellent triangulation.
     
  15. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Yeah I think I will be good. I already decided I'm mounting to body. I just cut my rockers out and the rear door support. The tube right behind the seat will mount to this support, and the front tube will mount to the support below your feet on the floorboard. I think this will do me fine. The slider part should act as a bottom tube between the two mount then I will use a brow bar and probably one triangluation bar from above driver dash to above passenger rear. Heck my cage will give me a place to mount speakers /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif. I need to figure out seat belt stuff though. Will a 5 point work with a bench seat? The place where the factory seat belts bolt to on the body are both rotted out beyond repair. Besides the bench that I got the factory belts don't fit into the new recievers.
     
  16. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    Skigirl

    i was worried about it disappearing for me. i dont have ac but getting in and out i hate having me feet get hung up. i sold my full size van b/c of always getting stuck on the wheel well. my wife says if i didnt have size 17 feet it wouldnt be a prob. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif im assuming that was your pic a while ago how far back did you go? i didnt see any pics in your profile. I am gonna do a family cage for my daughters sake. dis you do anything else to help it with the faster rollover?

    sled dog

    good decision on the to the body. if its to the frame you get vibrations, and if you pad it (rubber ect) you lose the point. so i would agree.
     
  17. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    Don't know if a 5 point harness will work with a bench seat. But the mounting points for the seatbelts should be on the cage, not the body. The seats should mount to the cage too, so in a worse case scenerio if the cage comes loose your seat will still be secure within the cage. If the belts were mounted to the body and the cage somehow looses itself from the body, the seatbelts will hold you to the body while the cage is separating. Squish... /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    The guys I know running 5 point harnesses with cages have a lateral bar behind the front seats and mounting tabs on it for the harness up top and tabs below too. I won't need a 5 point harness to drive up snow covered mountain roads (primary use of my truck) so I'm just using the standard 3 point. So I didn't need that lateral tube. I have 2 tabs by the caged seat and one will be up on the hoop behind the seat. I suppose that I could have a lateral removable bar added so that I could run a 5 point. Probably won't tho.
     
  18. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I know about the lateral bar and planned on that when I started thinking 5 point. My Dad has dirt track race cars so I know how to do it. I was saying that the stock seat belt mounted to the body but I will moutn my new one to the cage.
     
  19. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    69K5: my feet are a little smaller than yours (thank god for small favors). You could always take a small piece of pipe and tape or strap it where you see mine and try it before you commit.

    Yea, that was my cage. it's a family cage, very triangulated. Designed for safety in a high speed roll. Also removable (the front cab section is bolt on to the rear so it all can be pulled out if needed). I'll have better pics soon, but here's some of it. What you don't see are gussets across the very back of the cage. Those gussets provided enough support that Mike felt we would not need to add a bar crossing behind the driver's seat.

    By my count the cage is 14 points (if I'm counting correctly). Truly, the key for safety is triangles, as many as you can do. Mike really llooked at the potential forces that would occur on a fast roll and then triangulated from there. Interesting that if a large gusset is added to the rear, it will stabilize the cage behind the driver's seat and eliminate the need for a diagonal bar across there.

    You could always add one, but if you dont' have a full convertible the existing rollbar provides extra support. So what you're then looking at is preventing the cage from collapsing sideways, not downwards. that's why most designs have the diagonal behind the front seat. But with triangulation at the rear and at the top as well, Mike thinks there will be plenty of support to prevent that sideways collapse.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. 69K5

    69K5 1/2 ton status

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    skigirl

    thanks for the pic. i like the triangulation at the back. i didnt want one behind the driver seat for convenience purposes. mine is a full convertible so i didnt want to connect to just the windshield frame as i can see it just folding down on me.

    thanks again /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    69k5
    nathan
     

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