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cat motors

Discussion in 'Tow & Trailer' started by eightyone, Sep 19, 2004.

  1. eightyone

    eightyone 1/2 ton status

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    i might sound /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif for saying this, but has anyone ever put a cat motor in there chevy truck? i heard these motors run for ever, and ive seen a new topkick with one in it with a 6 speed. the guy was dropping off 40 tons of material to a job i was werking on, and he said you cant even feel it /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif so i guess what im trying to say is, i want a cat motor and a six speed in a regular cab dually.
     
  2. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    What engine are you wanting to swap? We have made and currently make more than one model.
     
  3. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    Dude! the 3206 (I think thats the right ID#) wieghs about 1400 lb's that's gonna take some serious front spring to hold that up, and thats one of the smaller cats, not to mention that big ole eaton 6 speed /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif
     
  4. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    3208 is what you are thinking of and I personally know of at least 4 trucks repowered with 3208s near me, all GM crew cab duallies. These swaps were done by the former head engineer where I work, but unfortunately he retired right before I started here. He also had a lot to do with the building of the engine for the Silver Bullet pulling team, which is a 3208 powered Oliver that runs on alcohol I believe.

    Oh, and I dont see how 1400 lbs of engine is any different than 850 or so lbs. (6.2s weight I believe) plus a plow on the front or a heavy winch and bumper.
     
  5. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    the guy was dropping off 40 tons of material to a job

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is very impessive, as the gross weight of a semi truck is only 40 tons.
     
  6. chevyracing

    chevyracing 1/2 ton status

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    40 tons of material and he didn't know it was back there, in a top kick with a 6 speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that I would have to see. My last truck was a 99 Peterbilt with a 3406E set at 550 horses with an 18 speed and 3:55 rears, I guarantee, if I had it on that truck I would have completely realized it was back there. I hauled for Caterpillar for several years out of Pekin, Morton, and Peoria Ill. Also spent quite a bit of time going to Corinth Ms. with Cat cores from the pedle runs to the dealerships. Seems like each stop I was at each dealership would have a show case pickup that they shoehorned some kind of a big Cat engine in.

    Blueblazer, which Kitty house you work at?

    John
     
  7. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    I work at the Tech Center, bldg. L, Global Engine Development.
     
  8. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    and ive seen a new topkick with one in it with a 6 speed. the guy was dropping off 40 tons of material to a job i was werking on, and he said you cant even feel it /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    [/ QUOTE ] 80,000 lbs plus the weight of the vehicle? Come on. A cat equipped topkick isn't even capable of pulling that kind of weight nor can it pull just a trailer capable of holding 40 tons. We own a trucking business and when our N14's, Detroits, Cat's are 40 tons gross you can DEFINANTLY tell it's there. Are you sure it wasn't 4 tons he pulled in? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    If it was a new topkick than it probably had either a C7 or 3126 in (basically the same motor, different name), Not the earlier 3208.

    BELIEVE ME, I have contemplated swapping in a mechanical 3116 or electronic 3126 into a late 90's 1 ton chevy. The 3126 is slightly lighter than the 3208 at 1295 lbs, only about 200lbs more than the ISB cummins(whats in the dodges) and roughly the same size. I prefer the 3116/3126 because they are strait 6's rather than a hefty V8 3208.

    The main problem were it isn't practical with swapping in a 3116/3126 vs. an ISB cummins is that the cats cost more, is slightly heavier, and most importantly the lack of aftermarket support for the Cat motors. THere are so many performance parts available for the ISB/6BT these days that it is fairly simple and cheap(vs. the cat) to make big power. BUT....if one was able to o-ring the head on a 3116, put larger injectors in comparable to whats available for the ISB, fuel plates, modified injector pump, aftermarket pistons.....The Cat would leave an identically modified ISB in a cloud of black smoke. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I know when I considered the swap that I didn't have that kind of money to have custom pistons made, etc etc(or if I could even get them made for that matter) to make it worth while. THe ISB is such a cheaper route. This is why I am currently looking at purchasing a 24v cummins dodge 3/4.
     
  9. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    to mention that big ole eaton 6 speed

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Some weights for Eaton-Fuller Roadrangers:
    6-speed for a medium truck (like a Topkick) is about 500lbs.
    9-speed is about 600lbs.
    13-speed is about 750lbs.
    18-speed with double low is nearly 900lbs.
     
  10. Diesel Dan

    Diesel Dan 1/2 ton status

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    As the owner of a couple 6BT Cummins over the last few years I can honestly ask: Why would you want a motor even heavier than a ISB? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    If you can't get enough cheap power out of a CTD for a power plant transplant, then get a bigger towrig! I've seen a supercharged 6V-53 detroit in a '77 1 ton crewcab. Other than the cool factor why bother? Very cramped engine compartment, the front end weight taxes a D60. All that extra weight lowers the hauling capacity, definitely no snow plow.
     
  11. fordcummins1

    fordcummins1 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The main problem were it isn't practical with swapping in a 3116/3126 vs. an ISB cummins is that the cats cost more, is slightly heavier, and most importantly the lack of aftermarket support for the Cat motors. THere are so many performance parts available for the ISB/6BT these days that it is fairly simple and cheap(vs. the cat) to make big power. BUT....if one was able to o-ring the head on a 3116, put larger injectors in comparable to whats available for the ISB, fuel plates, modified injector pump, aftermarket pistons.....The Cat would leave an identically modified ISB in a cloud of black smoke. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I know when I considered the swap that I didn't have that kind of money to have custom pistons made, etc etc(or if I could even get them made for that matter) to make it worth while. THe ISB is such a cheaper route. This is why I am currently looking at purchasing a 24v cummins dodge 3/4.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I know BlueBlazer62 is gonna respond to this one and add way more info, but dont think that Cat motors cannot be easily modded to make power that would shame a Cummins. After talking with Tyler, I started thinking about a Cat swap myself using the 3116, but then what would I do with the 12V Cummins in my shop now?? /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif And as for cost, there are more than enough Topkicks running around that could be parted out....maybe I should rethink the Cummins route /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  12. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Yep, the 3116 fuel system is much more limited than the Cummins. The base engine is better and stronger in many ways, but the unit injectors simply cant flow enough to outdo the ol' 5.9. You can get a lot of power out of them simply by using marine parts and making a few other modifications here and there. I want to put a Cat in my truck simply for the cool factor and its where I work, so thats reason enough for me.
     
  13. Diesel Dan

    Diesel Dan 1/2 ton status

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    I just started a thread in the diesel section for comparing 6 cylinder turbo diesels pros/cons /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif.
    Might be more fitting than this forumn.
     
  14. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I know BlueBlazer62 is gonna respond to this one and add way more info, but dont think that Cat motors cannot be easily modded to make power that would shame a Cummins. After talking with Tyler, I started thinking about a Cat swap myself using the 3116, but then what would I do with the 12V Cummins in my shop now?? /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif And as for cost, there are more than enough Topkicks running around that could be parted out....maybe I should rethink the Cummins route /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif

    [/ QUOTE ] I never once said anything bad about the Cat's....they are my favorite motors by far because we have a 3116 in our Cat challenger tractor and that thing is bad ass. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif The 3116 IS a better motor than the ISB IMHO because it makes more power STOCK and will outlast it.

    My point was though....that it would cost WAYYYYYY more money and more headaches to get monster power out of the cats vs. the easely modified ISB thanks to the aftermarket. There is no current aftermarket hi performance parts available for hardly ANY cats.....there are never ending hi performance parts available for the ISB. That is my point. If a guy has the money to spend twice to three times as much getting custom stuff built for a badass 3116 to make monster power than awesome! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif For me I know I couldn't afford it and have to settle for an ISB powered dodge with standard "cheap" mass produced performance parts.
     
  15. fordcummins1

    fordcummins1 1/2 ton status

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    To make a nasty tow rig out of a Cat motor, why not just go with the marine apps. like BlueBlazer 62 suggested. This is the way I would go, and with it being a stock Cat motor, just in marine form, I would imagine that parts wouldnt be hard to get. Anyone who needs more than 500hp and 1000 lb ft of torque in a tow rig is crazy......my kinda guy, but crazy.
     
  16. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    To make a nasty tow rig out of a Cat motor, why not just go with the marine apps. like BlueBlazer 62 suggested. This is the way I would go, and with it being a stock Cat motor, just in marine form, I would imagine that parts wouldnt be hard to get. Anyone who needs more than 500hp and 1000 lb ft of torque in a tow rig is crazy......my kinda guy, but crazy.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Well thats one route with marine parts but I wasn't really talking about just strickly a tow rig, I meant what it would take to totally bomb a cat to it's full potential and edge, like what people are doing with the ISB. I am talking about hi performance diesel stuff for a pull truck or toy. When it comes to Hi performance diesels 500/1000 isn't much really. Besides, thats not even coming close to pushing a stout 3126 to it's full potential. Heck, I bet I will make 500/1000 with just an edge comp box, strait exhaust, HX40, injectors, and a little propane...or at least close to it on an ISB dodge when I buy one soon.

    The way I see it is that a marine version still isn't going to touch a seriously bombed ISB. Now, figure out how to oring the cat head, huge injectors and pump, twin turbos, custom pistons, and a little propane and/or nitrous and get the hell out of it's way. Get a cat Bombed the way an ISB is capable of and it will blow around the ISB. I would imagine 1000/2000-2500 could be had with a crazy bombed 3126 and be able to handle it fairly well thanks to the extra cubes and stouter bottom end over the ISB.
     
  17. eightyone

    eightyone 1/2 ton status

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    this is weird...i didnt even post this /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif although i do remember that topkick droppin off cement...i think it was about 7800 pounds of cement...i guess my brother must have posted this...im gunna go find out /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  18. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    You read too much TDR and magazines it sounds like to me. Do you have even the foggiest idea how the fuel systems work on these engines and what it takes to get power out of them? BTW, a C7 marine STOCK is 460 hp and 1040 ft lbs.
     
  19. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You read too much TDR and magazines it sounds like to me. Do you have even the foggiest idea how the fuel systems work on these engines and what it takes to get power out of them? BTW, a C7 marine STOCK is 460 hp and 1040 ft lbs.

    [/ QUOTE ] Yes I do, whats your point? 460/1040 is great stock but it still won't touch a bombed 5.9 in the hi performance realm, excluding longevity of the engine.

    If you know so much about diesel performance then why don't you finally explain to us how to bomb a cat BESIDES converting to marine app. parts. So how would one go about making huge power that would be competitive to the ISB with a 3116/3126? /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  20. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    First of all, define "bomb" for me. The following modifications would be "bombed" enough for me, maybe not up to your standards. 3116 would need a custom ground cam, marine injectors that might need a little work to open up the orifices on the tip, some sort of twin turbo setup (not sure what turbos to use), marine pistons for the low compression, and some governor work to make it turn 3500+ rpm. The HEUI engines could probably get by with stock marine injectors, marine pistons, cam would probably be fine since it only actuates the valves on this engine. Again, some sort of twin turbo setup, and of course custom software. I am not familiar with the Edge boxes for Cat engines, so that may be sufficient, maybe not.
     

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