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'Cause there's not enough arguing here

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gjk5, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Male activists want say in unplanned pregnancy

    Lawsuit seeks right to decline financial responsibility for kids


    Thursday, March 9, 2006; Posted: 6:52 a.m. EST (11:52 GMT)


    [​IMG]
    Matt Dubay contends his ex-girlfriend assured him she was unable to get pregnant ​






    NEW YORK (AP) -- Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.




    The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter.
    The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.
    The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.
    "There's such a spectrum of choice that women have -- it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."
    Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Michigan.
    Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that -- because of a physical condition -- she could not get pregnant.
    Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.
    "What I expect to hear [from the court] is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."
    State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court might rule similarly in Dubay's case.
    "The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.
    Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.
    'This is so politically incorrect'

    Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.
    "Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government -- literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."
    Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.
    "Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."
    "The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."
    Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.
    "If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."
    The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.
    "None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."




    My thoughts:

    A: I am amazed this guy ever got laid even once (I mean, come on, a programmer and a cat lover and just look at him), and by a woman no less.

    B: I don't think a man should be able to force an abortion on a woman in any circumstance, but it does seem odd that he has absolutely no say-so.

    C: Along that same vein, should a man be able to prevent a woman from aborting his child against his wishes?

    D: Should he be automatically liable for support in this circumstance or should there be an "out"?



    Not trying be a sh*t-stirring troll, just thought it was an interesting topic.
     
  2. Leper

    Leper 1/2 ton status

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    I like it.
     
  3. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I just can't get past the fact that homoghey there actually impregnated a woman.
     
  4. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    I know, you'd think he's be too busy playing dress-up with his cat.
     
  5. 8_YOUR_H2

    8_YOUR_H2 1/2 ton status

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    Don't tell him but.....

    I knocked the bitch up...
     
  6. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Well, I personally know exactly what the guy is going through. The system is completely skewed and f---ed up.

    It is true, as I found out the hard way, that men have absolutely NO say in pregnancy. Not conceiving, but the actual pregnancy. And even the act of conceiving is mainly up to the women since she can always be underhanded enough to poke holes in condoms or flush the birth control pill down the toilet every morning. The pills that the guy bought for her....

    ...sorry. Touchy subject for me...

    ... I don't even get to see my kid anymore because she can afford an attorney because of the child support that I pay her...

    Or like the woman that got ahold of some of her ex-husband's frozen sperm and used it to knock herself up several times to get him for child support?

    Complete BS.


    Although, on the bright side, atleast I don't look like him...
     
  7. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Hmm....
     
  8. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    A touchy subject indeed...

    On one hand, it's cool. Like it's been said, there isn't NEARLY enough support for men who have unexpected/unwanted children. Sure, if they used protection, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place, but that's been said for decades and teen pregnancies continue to rise. Could some plans be backfiring perhaps? Anyway... I think it's safe to say 99% of the time, it's the woman who keeps the baby, raises the baby, sees the baby all the time, then turns around and collects every cent they can from the man who is likely struggling to support himself in the first place, without paying more than his fair share for the child's support. A friend of mine who got pregnant after a trip to the bar not too long ago made an excellent point. She said, "If my daughter's dad doesn't want to be part of her life, I don't want his money. It'll be hard, but I don't want him to be able to be in her life if he doesn't want to accept her." WOW! Great words from that lady, indeed! I think that if a man doesn't want anything to do with his child, he shouldn't be a part of their life in any way including financially. It's really not fair that a woman can go get rid of her child any time she wants with no legal recourse. She doesn't have to keep paying child support to whoever that baby ends up with. Men don't have an option, they're stuck paying until the kid is 18 unless mom gives it up.

    However, giving guys the option to say they don't want to claim the child as theirs also seems like it would be a bad idea. Just look how many deadbeat dad's there are already. People who rightfully SHOULD pay child support who don't. Men who refuse to accept that they have a child and because of the child the mom is suffering a huge financial burden and could use even a small amount of money to help out. Think about how many more guys are going to take advantage of this if it becomes a "law" (I don't remember what it's called when the result of a lawsuit changes the law without actually changing it). We'll have guys running around left and right saying they don't want to pay for a baby, get it away from me.

    It'll be hard to find a good comprimise between those two views in this case... I for one will be following it to see what happens.
     
  9. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Well if that dude didn't have pussy stuck in his face all the time he probably wouldn't be in this predicament:haha: :haha:
     
  10. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    I like her already.
     
  11. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Indeed if only all women thought that way instead of "How can I get $$$ for nothing?"


    Even though I am biased for being directly part of this issue, I agree that there would be mass abuse of it, such as there is abuse of the system now by many women.

    It'll never make it. But that's not his point. His point is to put it out into the public's eye. I hope he acheives that. I think that if more people knew about my situation then perhaps I wouldn't be thousands of dollars in debt with bills adding up. And more importantly, maybe I'd get to see my son and his mother would get psychiatrically evaluated.

    But since I'm a "dead beat dad" as far as the gov sees it, I have no voice.

    And no, I am not a dead beat dad. I have gone through great lengths to do the right thing and screwed my whole life over in the process.

    Argh..... I'm gonna go drink... wish I had some beer. I guess hard liquor and fresh peanut butter cookies will do.
     
  12. smalltruckbigcid

    smalltruckbigcid 1/2 ton status

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    The NBA actually schools rookies coming into the league about unplanned pregnancies. The story I read was that some unscrupulous women will take the used fresh condom and offer to dispose of it for the player. Then they use the sperm to impregnate themselves for the child support or marriage. A friend of a friend told me the Minnesota vikings are doing this schooling too.
    George
     
  13. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Damn no wonder OJ's not lookin for the real killer...
     
  14. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    So you took my sloppy seconds?
     

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