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Charging system stumper

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by CK5, Dec 5, 2000.

  1. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    OK, in the last month I have a new ignition, battery, battery cables, starter, summit remote solinoide, alternator, ignition modual. Just recently, the K5 will start when cold but not warm. I'm stumped, I have had everything checked but the one moth old starter/remote solinoide, do you think it could be the starter?

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  2. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    It does sound like the starter to me. Mine starts better since I did the remote solenoid but still cranks slower when its hot. My starter is old though.
    Maybe its time for a review of one of those hi-torque mini starters! [​IMG]

    Rene

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Stoopalini

    Stoopalini 1/2 ton status

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    What does it do when you try and start it warm? I assume it does nothing since you're suspecting the starter, and if so, it definitely sounds like an over-heated starter problem to me.

    Easy way to test is to -- get it hot so the problem arises and then run a test wire from the battery directly to the solinoide. You should hear the solinoid click when power is applied. If it does, chances are it's working properly.
    Then run the same wire down to the starter to see if it kicks.

    I have seen people make heat shields to go around their starters before because of a similar problem. the guy actually used a coffee can to do it [​IMG]
    Mine is starting to go out too. Every now and then it acts up. I figure once it dumps on me, I'll put a heat shield in with the replacement starter.

    Good luck,

    Thomas.

    -- '84 K5 Blazer --
    http://Stoopalini.coloradok5.com
     
  4. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    That is weird. With the Remote start solinoide, you would htink you would have eliminated that problem.

    Like Rene said, time for a starter review! I know CVR make a starter that is completely sealed with O-rings! They sell them at Jegs! :)

    Mike [​IMG]
    See <font color=green>EMMETT</font color=green> -&gt; http://emmett.coloradok5.com
     
  5. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    The starter has a factory heat shield believe it or not, the starter still cranks when warm, just real slow, kind of like a dead battery, but the battery is a Diehard gold that is a month old and I just had it check today and it is fine.

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    If you have a Diehard go back to Sears, tell them you're having trouble with your battery. They will test your starting and charging system for free because you have one of thier battery's. Just make sure it is good and hot when you go so it will crank slow![​IMG]

    Rene


    [​IMG]
     
  7. Stoopalini

    Stoopalini 1/2 ton status

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    Factory heat shield, no kidding! Thats pretty nice of them, huh [​IMG] I've owned two of these beasts and neither of them had that [​IMG]

    From the added info, it definitely sounds like an over-heated starter then. I would personally bring it back and get it swapped out for a new one -- especially since it's not even a month old.

    We all know these starters have a problem dealing with the heat from the exhaust/engine, but after only a month?!? Hmmmm, that's pretty soon to start exhibiting these problems.

    Also, I'm kind of curious how the remote solinoide would cure this problem? It is my understanding that the slow crank when hot issue is due to the starter motor getting hot, not the solinoide. Is this wrong?

    Thomas.

    -- '84 K5 Blazer --
    http://Stoopalini.coloradok5.com
     
  8. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    I could be wrong.. I thought people went to the remote solinoide, to get it away from heat.

    If I am wrong, sorry! :)

    Mike [​IMG]
    See <font color=green>EMMETT</font color=green> -&gt; http://emmett.coloradok5.com
     
  9. californiak5

    californiak5 1/2 ton status

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    It is usualy the solinoide that is the problem, not the starter motor itself. If it starts witout any problem cold and then cranks slow when hot I would say that it is the solinoide that is still getting a little hot. Try puting a heat shield around the solinoide in the remote location, that should help. (Maybe)

    [​IMG] I have to agree with the Puddy Cat. [​IMG]
     
  10. moneypit

    moneypit 1/2 ton status

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    My truck did this after the new engine install and turned out the timing was to advanced backed it off a little and is now fine.
     
  11. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Steve, did you check the clearance between the flexplate ring gear and the starter gear when you installed the starter? If that gap is too small, then as the gears expand with temperature they can bind together. You can buy various thickness starter shims to adjust the clearance.

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    http://ThunderTruck.ColoradoK5.com
     
  12. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Money, you mean it started fine when cold but not when it was warm? That is weird.

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  13. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Harry, no I did not check that, in fact I noticed when I got the starter that the opening was smaller where the starter gear is than the old one. When I got the starter they asked me if I had auto or man transmission, I thought they were all the same, but maybe they gave me the wrong one.

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  14. k5king

    k5king 1/2 ton status

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    if you want a real good starter then get a TILTON starter...they work great!!!we have used them on everything from personal vehicles to full modified mud racers with blowers....they will crank a long time and not wear out... i've seen them packed with so much mud you think it will never work again cause you had to use a chisel to get the packed mud out,,,but once it's clear they fire right off...they are however a little pricey but i feel it's well worth the money...go visit the next NMRO mud race and talk to a few guy's...most of them run the tilton mini starters and have mostly good things to say....

    ANYBODY LOSE THEIR JEEP????????[​IMG]
    I JUST FOUND ONE UNDER MY BLAZER!!!![​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  15. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    There is also an "Off-Road" version of starters at Auto ZOne. It is the same starter as a normal one, but with a smaller opening like you are talking about.

    Mike [​IMG]
    See <font color=green>EMMETT</font color=green> -&gt; http://emmett.coloradok5.com
     
  16. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    How about the batt cable going to the starter? Is it routed as far away from your exahust as possiable? As a batt cable gets hot the heat creates resistance in the cable. If the cable is live(without a dual remote sili setup)the resitance will rise even higher. With a dead cable(with a remote sili)the resitance does still rise with heat but not nearlly as high. So the idea is to ZAP the heated cable with a fresh blast from the battery. The 'freash' blast is and should be enought to overcome the dead heat resistance.
    So the cooler the cable stays the less resistance is generated.
    What size cable are you using? I would not run smaller than #2!
    Good luck

    72K5[​IMG]Led Zeppelin[​IMG]Rock ON![​IMG]
    http://www.burt4x4.coloradok5.com
     
  17. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Steve, even if you did get the right starter, it could still have clearance problems. If you have a factory manual around, look up the install proceedure for starters. It will show you how and where to measure. Due to manufacturing tolerances you sometimes need to shim the starter gear away from the engine just a bit to prevent binding.

    If they're binding really badly, then usually the starter gear won't disengage for a few seconds after the engine starts.

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    http://ThunderTruck.ColoradoK5.com
     
  18. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    What strikes me as odd is that this starter has been working fine for the last month with no shims or anything.

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  19. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    OK, I have another idea, I am going to get it warm tonight and when it doesn't start, I will jump it with the wifes car and if it starts that will rule out the starter.

    Steve
    [​IMG]
    1990 K5 with stuff
     
  20. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

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    Good idea, but all that does is add amperage, not isolating the starter as a problem.

    What gauge cables are you using on your batt cables? Good ground? Do you have headers?

    <font color=black>'79 - 406 TPI -<font color=orange> K5#5 - <font color=blue>See it at---&gt;http://www.blazzinor.coloradok5.com
     

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