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cummins 5.9Ldiesel swap into my 89 3/4 ton suburban

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by muddysub, May 7, 2004.

  1. muddysub

    muddysub 1 ton suburban status Staff Member Moderator GMOTM Winner

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    ok i know its been done and ive see one of them like it. i wanty to put a cummins 5.9L I-6 in my sub. 12 valve (pre 1998) or 24 (1998 up), 12 will be easier and theres more aftermarket parts available for them. i know ill need bigger springs and im getting a D60 ASAP. what about the tranny? can my th400 handle 500+ft/lbs of torque? i dont think the HP will be all that high maybe mid 200s but the torque im afraid will kill my th400. can i beef up my 400 to make it handle it? i know the TC will need to be changed. and how much will this cost including the price of the engine? i was thinkin i can get a wrecked dodge pickup and pull the motor and tranny out of it. would it be hard to swap a dodge 5 speed stick into it? i really want a diesel and the old 6.2s and 6.5s are garbage so this is what i wanna do.
     
  2. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

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    Not that it helps you out at all, but I used to have a 74 K20 w/ a inline 6 Isuzu 6BB1 diesel out of a 21' Isuzu box truck. It had a custom bellhousing, and was mated to a stock SM465 w/ a 203 behind it.
     
  3. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    Check out the diesel forum....why do you think the 6.2 is junk? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  4. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    There was some discussion of this in the Diesel forum awhile back. Also I believe AZBlazor is doing or has done this swap. It might be worth your while to see if he would share some secrets about it or see it in person since you are in Phoenix as is he.

    Harley
     
  5. muddysub

    muddysub 1 ton suburban status Staff Member Moderator GMOTM Winner

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    theyre underpowered, not turbo'd and there are no aftermarket parts for them. name one GM diesel that is worth a sh!t compared to a cummins or powerstroke... there isnt one.
     
  6. SS66

    SS66 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    theyre underpowered, not turbo'd and there are no aftermarket parts for them. name one GM diesel that is worth a sh!t compared to a cummins or powerstroke... there isnt one.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The 6.5's are TD's. And Banks makes aftermarked parts for 6.2's and 6.5's. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I almost forgot... The Duramax is worth a sh!it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes technically its not GM, but the Powerstroke isnt Ford
     
  7. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    I know Banks and Bullydog have stuff for the 6.2/6.5 The Duramax was the most powerful diesel engine to date before the 600 Cummins came out a few months ago. As it's already been stated technically GM doesn't make the Duramax(Dodge doesn't make the Cummins and Ford doesn't make the PowerStroke) but each of the companies have their hands in the designs.

    The 6.2/6.5 make as much power as the other smallblocks offered at the time.

    If your not going to be towing, I see no reason to install a Cummins other than the cool factor. If you just want great MPG's, longevity, and mechanical injection than stick with a 6.2/6.5...
     
  8. Muley

    Muley 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    600 Cummins

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have one, and it is the shiznit. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Now, I just need to get something to tow. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Yes technically its not GM, but the Powerstroke isnt Ford

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This statement in itself proves that you have no clue what you're talking about.

    The Duramax was engineered and tested by a team of 1/2 GM and 1/2 Isuzu engineers.

    On top of that, GM owns 49% of Isuzu which is the #1 producer of Diesel engines in this horsepower range in the world.

    GM knew what they were doing with the Duramax and it is highly sucessful for a reason.

    As for the 6.2/6.5, they simply weren't designed to compete with direct injected engines and they don't. I would love to have one in my truck as I don't tow with it and it would offer great MPG and crawling ability and still give reasonable horsepower.

    I wouldn't expect to tow anything at all with a 6.2 as said above, although they have reasonable torque for what they are.
     
  10. muddysub

    muddysub 1 ton suburban status Staff Member Moderator GMOTM Winner

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    i have never liked the 6.2s and 6.5s. cummins is a better engine in my opinion and there is still more available for them than ther ever will be for the old GM diesels. they build more power and they'll last longer (true their life span is cut with extreme mods like anyother diesel) and i cant stand the way those old GM diesels sound,, they sound like a bunch of tin cans rattling around under the hood, and cummins sound awesome. and i dont like duramaxes they're too quiet and it would be incredible expensive and complicated to put one in my sub..... just not practical.
     
  11. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I think I understand what muddysub is saying....the early 6.2/6.5's are decent motors but you just can't expect much more out of them than stock, especially the 6.2. I personally think they are decent motors for good fuel mileage and light towing but in the day and age where you have the DHRA(diesel hot rod association) that is growing at an incredible speed, those older motors can't even compare to later designs. I am into hi performance diesels big time myself and the cummins ISB can take a crazy amount of abuse, nitrous, propane, crazy boost numbers, tons of fuel being poured in, and stay together. I doubt a 6.2 could handle much nitrous for very long. Heck the only diesel powered dragster( The Bentz) is powered by a twin turbo'd (developing between 60-80 psi of boost), bosch fuel system with custom injectors, 24 valve cummins with a stock bottom end. It pulls the quarter in 9.3 seconds. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
    Also ya' got to love that choppy agressive idle that the cummins with a good flowing exaust has.
    Lets face it, the early GM diesels were designed for light duty pickup service and the 5.9 cummins was designed for medium duty commercial service demanding long life and good power and Dodge had the sense to relize "hey guys would buy a pickup with one of those in it". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I also like the Duramax and the new 6.0 Powerstroke. THe duramax is a pretty stout motor that is making tons of power with the help of aftermarket parts. Just go through a Fourwheeler mag and read what banks says they can get out of them.
    I am very impressed also with the 6.0, it accelerates and winds up very fast and ohhhh, does that new turbo of theirs sound good under hard acceleration. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

    I agree, if I was going to go through trying to convert to diesel I don't think I would consider a 6.2/6.5 either. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  12. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Heck with a Cummins. If I ever did a diesel swap it would either be a CAT 3126 /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif or an International DT466 /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif Both would be damn near impossible to swap in but would freaking be awsome.
     
  13. SS66

    SS66 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Yes technically its not GM, but the Powerstroke isnt Ford

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This statement in itself proves that you have no clue what you're talking about.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    SOURCE

    Quote: " GM's relationship with Isuzu began in 1971 and was strengthened in 1997 when GM announced that Isuzu would develop diesel engines for GM. "

    Maybe I dont know what Im talking about /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  14. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    So, you want a D60 front, Cummin's, plus the dodge tranny...might as well just sell the Sub and buy a dodge. It'll be easier.

    To Tim, I'd gladly tow anything with my 6.2 that I'd tow with my old 350 and not think twice about it. The 6.2 has way more low end grunt and will deliver twice the mileage.

    Rjfguitar, there is plenty of aftermarket support for the 6.2's and 6.5's...if you care to look. As for power, you can buy a complete 6.5 twin turbo from peninsular diesel that makes 400hp and 600+ lbs of torque. It ain't cheap, but still a ton cheaper than buying and bombing a Cummin's.

    Lastly, Muddysub...we have a diesel forum dude. If I had a 'suburban' specific question I'd post in that forum. You'd get better advice if you posted in the correct forum.

    Rene
     
  15. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Rjfguitar, there is plenty of aftermarket support for the 6.2's and 6.5's...if you care to look. As for power, you can buy a complete 6.5 twin turbo from peninsular diesel that makes 400hp and 600+ lbs of torque. It ain't cheap, but still a ton cheaper than buying and bombing a Cummin's.



    [/ QUOTE ]I have seen the upgrades for the 6.2 and have considered at one time an 89-91 K5 with the 6.2 and getting the banks turbo for it. I'm absolutely positive that it would live just fine turbo charged but I would be scared to put a little nitrous to it. Both the bottom end and heads can't handle a lot of cylinder pressure like a cummins or a CAT can.

    For the 6.5....400 HP and 600ft lbs isn't bad but it's nothing to brag about IMHO. A new 600 cummins surpasses those numbers without a prob with only an aftermarket programmer. I was talking about serious power....like 700HP and 1,200ft lbs and even more! It is crazy what guys are getting out of those little ISB cummins. How about the maroon Burb in TTC with the cummins? 850HP and 1400ft lbs or something?

    Don't get me wrong, I like the early GM diesels, good little motors but IMHO they aren't in the same class as the cummins, PS, D-max.
     
  16. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Heck with a Cummins. If I ever did a diesel swap it would either be a CAT 3126 /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif or an International DT466 /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]Yeah no kidding! I'm actually lucky enough to own both of those motors currently. The International being in our Bankout(don't ask what that is) and I plow around through the mud with it in the fall time harvesting our rice, there is no muffler on it and it blows black smoke like crazy, I love it! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif We also have a CAT challenger super 35 with a 3116(the early model 3126 or C7) and I am currently running it.

    I love CAT motors, I think they are the best out there and the C7 would blow the ISB cummins out of the water if one of the big three would actually use it. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Mainly because it is a 7.2 litre and makes 320HP and 860 ft lbs from the factory. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif Just think what it would do with a nice healthy dose of nitrous, a little propane, a lot of boost from 2 turbos(it's compression is 15.1:1) and a bunch of fuel. The power numbers would be crazy. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    I would love to build an 04' Crew cab long bed HD and put a C7 CAT in with some nice upgrades, bigger allison 5 spd, D60 front, and a 4 link suspension. To bad it will never happen unless I win the lotto or something. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    SOURCE

    Quote: " GM's relationship with Isuzu began in 1971 and was strengthened in 1997 when GM announced that Isuzu would develop diesel engines for GM. ":

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I used to email back and forth with one of the design engineers for the Duramax back in 1999 before the engine's specs were even released or anyone even knew what the Duramax was.

    The Duramax certainly was designed as a joint venture and is manufactured by DMAX, Ltd., which is owned 1/2 Isuzu and 1/2 GM and is located in Ohio.

    "The Duramax 6600 light-truck diesel engine is a result of a joint venture between Isuzu and General Motors Corporation (DMAX Ltd.)."

    Quote is from the same link you sent me.

    I knew this information five years ago when nobody even had any clue what "Duramax" was.

    Rene,

    As to you pulling anything that can be pulled with a small block with your Blazer, I'd say that's pretty reasonable. At 106.5" of wheelbase, you're going to run out of stability to pull a long/heavy trailer long before your 6.2 that is in good condition runs out of power.

    For those of us wishing to hitch to heavier things than a Blazer is capable of though, the 6.2 in its factory form is grossly underpowered for such duty.

    There is a reason that Direct Injection and Turbochargers are a standard across the board today.

    This is not to discount the long and reliable service that the 6.2/6.5 have provided to civilians as well as Ambulance drivers, the military, boat owners, and other countless applications in which this engine was used.

    Simply put, the 6.2/6.5 are decent, reliable powerplants. They just are not to be compared to the direct injected engines of today which produce (in some cases) 2-3 times the power that the 6.2/6.5 engines produced from the factory.
     
  18. SS66

    SS66 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    SOURCE

    Quote: " GM's relationship with Isuzu began in 1971 and was strengthened in 1997 when GM announced that Isuzu would develop diesel engines for GM. ":

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I used to email back and forth with one of the design engineers for the Duramax back in 1999 before the engine's specs were even released or anyone even knew what the Duramax was.

    The Duramax certainly was designed as a joint venture and is manufactured by DMAX, Ltd., which is owned 1/2 Isuzu and 1/2 GM and is located in Ohio.

    "The Duramax 6600 light-truck diesel engine is a result of a joint venture between Isuzu and General Motors Corporation (DMAX Ltd.)."

    Quote is from the same link you sent me.

    I knew this information five years ago when nobody even had any clue what "Duramax" was.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, the article states that the Duramax 6600 was a joint venture. But also states what I quoted above. Oh well, Im done hijacking subs thread /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  19. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Theres two trucks at work that I drive one is a 99 GMC C-6500 with the CAT 3126 and the other is a 03 International 4300 with the DT 466. I love it when Im going down the high way and theres some slowass in front of Me I can mash the throttel on either one and be up to 75 in no time then just fly by the slow poke. They really get up and go when I don't have a load on the trucks /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Theres two trucks at work that I drive one is a 99 GMC C-6500 with the CAT 3126 and the other is a 03 International 4300 with the DT 466. I love it when Im going down the high way and theres some slowass in front of Me I can mash the throttel on either one and be up to 75 in no time then just fly by the slow poke. They really get up and go when I don't have a load on the trucks /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Heck yeah they do! The only prob I see with a 3216 swap is the governed engine speed. What is your work truck governed at? My 3116 in my Challenger is governed at 2350. The highest I have seen CAT set the 3126's from the factory is 2400RPM's. I wonder if it would stay together at 3,000RPM's. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif What is the Cummins ISB governed at in the dodges?
     

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