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D44 crossover problems *FYI**PIC*

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Hossbaby50, May 30, 2004.

  1. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I went wheeling today. I have had crossover on for 2 runs. Both on a trail rated at 3ish. Nothing discusting or terribly difficult by AZ standards. I have only standard crossover. No hydro or hysteer. I do have a 1" spacer for my zero rates and therefore 1" extended steering studs.

    I sheared the front 2 steering studs off at knuckle height. Lost most all my steering. I had to covert back to to a stock steering setup to get my truck home.

    I will get pics of the studs that I sheared ASAP. I lost 1 stud on the trail and I pulled the second one ouf ot the steering arm by hand. The only one left was a grade 8 bolt that I am using for the rear hole in the steering arm. It was fine and the only thing holding my steering together.

    The studs I used were from Sky so I am going to call them and complain on Tuesday. I have had these studs in here for less then 2 months and only 2 offroad runs.

    Harley

    P.S. for people going to run crossover on a D44 or 10 bolt. Someone (I dont remember who offhand) is drilling arms and knuckles for 5/8" studs. This might be road you want to take. I may go this route if I have to. I may try running all bolts or see if ARP is going to make high strength studs.
     
  2. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    Someone (I dont remember who offhand) is drilling arms and knuckles for 5/8" studs

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I have drilled/tapped 4 knuckles for different ck5 members for the 5/8" studs /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  3. MTBLAZER89

    MTBLAZER89 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    Thanks for the info I have to run the spacer and longer studs too /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  4. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    What do you do about the conical washers? Just machine those out to 5/8" to I imagine.

    I might be going to do the 5/8" conversion here in not to long, but I don't really want to take the knuckle back off to have it machined out. I think I am going to try Grade 8 9/16" bolts (or maybe grade 10 if I can find them) so I don't have to tear it all apart again. We will see though. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    Harley
     
  5. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    Knuckles are just cast steel....actually super soft for the purpose they are designed for. Since yours are already drilled for 9/16, it would be VERY easy to drill and tap for 5/8" with a hand drill and hand tap since you've already got a straight pilot hole, just let the already drilled hole guide the bigger drill. As far as the conical washers, you can buy 5/8" conical washers. Can't remember where, I'll ask the guy that got them and post back up when I find out /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  6. bad_bo_ti

    bad_bo_ti 1/2 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    are the arms and spacers seperate? i need to go with spacers to and was thinking about welding the arms and the spacers together once they were on the truck and using probably CAT grade bolts /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  7. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    I don't think grade 10 bolts are going to help you any. From what I understand, bolts with a higher tensile strength have less strength in shear.
     
  8. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    The spacer and arm are seperate. I have heard of people welding them together though with tach welds. I don't think it matters much though since mine sheared below the spacer. The sheared even with the top of the knuckle.

    What grade bolts will work the best for this application? I know grade 5 usually bend before they shear. Grade 8 usually shear. Are grade 10 any advantage over grade 8?

    How much stronger is a 5/8" grade 8 bolt over a 9/16" bolt? The bolts are 4" long if that matters.

    I am going to get a pic of the stud that I have left after I sheared it ASAP. I sheared right at the base of the threads where it threads into the knuckle.

    Harley
     
  9. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    Since you told us this, I'm going to be changing mine to 5/8" studs /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. MTBLAZER89

    MTBLAZER89 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    To change the stud's to 5/8's any mods to the steering arm or just re drill and tap. Where can ya get those conical washers?
     
  11. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't think grade 10 bolts are going to help you any. From what I understand, bolts with a higher tensile strength have less strength in shear.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What are grade 10 bolts?
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    when was the last time they were checked for tightness?
    they should break at the beginning of the threads
    if they break anywhere else the studs are not the problem
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    What are grade 10 bolts?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Although not commonly available, there is such a thing as bolts of varying grades above and below the commonly available 5 and 8.
     
  14. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    What are grade 10 bolts?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Although not commonly available, there is such a thing as bolts of varying grades above and below the commonly available 5 and 8.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well ofcourse, but I'm still wondering where you came up with the number 10 in "Grade 10"?
     
  15. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    check your facts before being drawn into this trap
     
  16. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    To change the stud's to 5/8's any mods to the steering arm or just re drill and tap. Where can ya get those conical washers?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I do believe a 5/8" stud will fit thru the arm holes, if not, just drill them out also, but otherwise yeah, just drill and tap the knuckle to 5/8". I'm trying to find out where he got those 5/8 stud conical washers. If needed, I can machine them out tho. But I'll keep working on getting the info on where he got his /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  17. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    I know grade 5 usually bend before they shear. Grade 8 usually shear.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    But a Grade 5 will have totally failed long before the Grade 8 finally shears. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif The Grade 8 is much stronger, it just has a different failure mode than a Grade 5.
     
  18. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    I checked them after the first run with the crossover. They were fine. I visually inspected them too the other day when a fellow member was taking some measurements off my steering arm.

    The studs broke off right were the threads started. The stud that I found actually has a part of the first thread still on it.

    What is the whole trap about grade 10? Is it stronger? is it even possible to get ahold of it? Thanks

    Harley
     
  19. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    I have another design for those using spacers. In between the original stud holes of the spacer (not arm) drill two 1/4" or 5/16" holes through the spacer and into the knuckle. Set in some sort of pin (preferebly of a graded steel). This will not stop the shearing of studs, but simply make the shearing load greater at the base of the knuckle and therefore move the shear point up to ontop of the spacer. When they shear, you will have an 1" of stud sticking out to help grab onto and remove. I would recommend this even with the 5/8" kits. Just chaning the shear loads by 5% can easily move the weak spot.

    Use a little imagination for the piss poor job on drawing the stud holes.

    Stock style 0 - 0 - 0

    C.E.E. style 0 + 0 + 0

    plus (+) sign is the extra pin, minus sign (-) is to fill space.

    This is again the "fuse" theory in action. Anything can break, I just try and plan for how hard it will be to fix (mostly in the field).
     
  20. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: D44 crossover problems *FYI*

    [ QUOTE ]
    (or maybe grade 10 if I can find them)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's where I got that from if anyone is asking.

    Anyway, this one is hard to call. I would say that no matter what, a hardware upgrade in physical size is going to be necessary. The idea of using a metal pin to reduce the shear load all the way down at the knuckle sounds like a great idea to me.

    Is it possible to upgrade any further than 5/8"? I would say that extra 1/16" is going to help, but is 3/4" possible?
     

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