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damn starting problems, please I'm on my knees!!!!

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by mpascino, Jun 13, 2001.

  1. mpascino

    mpascino 1/2 ton status

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    damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Now that It's getting warmer I would expect my diesel to start easier.....wrong. I've found that a terminal is broken off of the sensor on the pass side of the head, I think this is the cold start sensor?(6.2 liter) I know it's been that way for a while but what exactly does that thing do, diesels aren't my specialty. When the motor is cool it starts easily enough with the glow plug light working, if the engine is slighty warm say above 100 or so degrees the glow plug light might come on for a second or two and that is it. Then I have to sit there and crank to everloving piss out of the thing to start it, my neighbors must love me. It's even worse when it finds that nice litte spot between warm and hot, then I have to crank it so much to the point where I am lucky I have good batteries. All the glow plugs have checked out okay, there is a newer controller in there. Anyone one have any Ideas? If nothing else how can I hook up a push button to turn the glowplugs on myself when I need to? In need of help!!!!!! I already toasted one starter, don't want to drop 300 on another
    thanks,
    Mike

    You call that dirty!?
     
  2. LittlePig

    LittlePig 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Rather than drop 300 on a new starter, why not drop 20 or whatever on a new sensor for the thing to replace teh broken one? . If that fixes it, great. If not, at least you haven't hurt anything by replacing a broken part. If the plugs are ok, how is the relay?

    Email: xiaozhu@my-deja.com
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  3. NewK5Guy

    NewK5Guy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    That sensor you mention may be the temp inhibit switch. You didn't say what year your 6.2 was(and I didn't bother looking in your profile), but the 84 version at least had a temp inhibit switch located in about the position you mention. This switch kept the plugs from cycling if the engine temp was over a certain temp to keep wear and tear off the controller and plugs when the engine is already warm. I, myself, think I am having problems with this swtich. Try this: unplug that "sensor" you said and bridge the terminals. Turn on the ign and see if the glow plugs cycle. If they do, there's your problem. You can leave it that way or replace it. Before you try this, please tell me what year your 6.2 is.
     
  4. mpascino

    mpascino 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    My diesel is a 91' I don't know if that is the switch only because the glow plugs cycle when it is cold just fine, once it warms up, they don't. I was thinking along the lines of the switch you speak of, maybe it is tripping at too low of a temp. Does this make any sense? Thanks again.


    You call that dirty!?
     
  5. 6.2 man

    6.2 man 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    that switch is a cold start switch ....only works when engine is cold ......there is a switch on the back behind the air intake That controls when your glow plugs cycle ....i have also seen relays for the glow plugs get week and will quit when engine is warm ...hope that helps ???
     
  6. NewK5Guy

    NewK5Guy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Yes, it does mean something if yours is a 91. The temp inhibit switch was only for 84-89(Lucky me, I have an 84). How many miles on it? I just read in my Diesel Tech manual that if you unplug the alternator and turn the ign on and the plugs cycle, then there is a diode burned out.
    And a tip. Don't keep cranking the engine till it starts. Yes, you will end up having to dump another wad into a new starter as you already know. While this problem goes on, start it this way: turn the engine over a few times, let the starter rest for a few seconds to cool off. Then repeat. Blipping the starter like this will help extend it's life(it has to go against 21.5:1 compression for Pete's sake) and in your case, should at least get you by until you can get this problem figured out.
    Ultimately, you may need a new controller. I recommend you pay the $15(I could be wrong) for the Haynes Diesel Tech manual and run through their flow charts and diagnostic routines. All you need is a 12 volt test probe. You'll find the problem faster than waiting for me to recite the whole routine to you.
     
  7. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    While everyone is checking your glowplugs, lemme ask: How many miles on your injector pump? When you crank it and it doesn't start, does it smoke, some/alot?

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  8. mpascino

    mpascino 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    yes it does smoke, the more I crank it the more it smokes... That's normal right? I was a little wiery about the whole thing just because even in the morning when the glow plugs do seem to function properly it doesn't kick over right away like it used to. Also every other diesel I have seen always fires right up after the glow plugs come on. What does this mean?

    You call that dirty!?
     
  9. mpascino

    mpascino 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Oh yeah 141k on the truck. Runs like new. The top half of the motor was supposedly done like 40-50 k ago. honestly the only thing motor wise I have changed was the glow plug controller other than that I assume all is original.

    You call that dirty!?
     
  10. NewK5Guy

    NewK5Guy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    That other fellow makes a good point. If it is blowing black smoke, I think that means the injector pump timing is off(correct me on this). Look at the pump where it mates with the block. There should be a mark on the pump flange and the block flange. That mark should like up perfectly. If it doesn't, loosen the 3 pump bolts(the ones underneath will be difficult) and align the pump so the mark makes a "I" or a "0", whichever happens to be there. Turning back the pump like that is usually done to mask other problems but since you said the top of the motor was "done over", the pump may have not been aligned right, may have been turned back to cover something, or was turned back and not aligned correctly when the top end was put back together. If I'm not mistaken(correct me here too), black smoke means the pump was turned back, effectively retarding timing like on a gasser.
     
  11. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Well what I was originally digging for was the health of the injector pump or a air sucking problem. As injector pumps get older it's harder for them to build pressure sufficently (injectors need the proper psi to "pop" open), in particular when the pump is hot - fuel is thin. Next air leaks in the fuel lines can cause all sorts of starting/running problems.

    What's you problem? Maybe neither. A weak pump might not smoke much at all on hot start. The wasy to check would be to dillute your last few gallons in your tank with alittle (1qt) of ATF and see if hot starts improve with thicker fuel. Air leaks in the fuel system should be a problem with a cold start and might not even appear when hot (not enough time between starts to bleed air).

    Injection timing: well it could cause hard starting but would think cold starts would be worse with bad timing. The hash marks on the pump/drive cover is a ball park mark for installation purposes. Proper timing is set with specialized equipment that senses No# 1 cylinder injection and/or crank position. If you suspect the shop/PO didn't have it set properly get it done, you'll appreciate the extra horses. SO the marks could be alittle off and actually be correct. Black smoke indicates an overfueling condition and is BAD if excessive (but EGR equipped 6.2s are notorious for smoking without extra fuel)

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  12. mpascino

    mpascino 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Just thought I would let everyone know. Although I would not consider the problem fixed completely. The burb is giving me less problems. I noticed a tiny coolant leak the other day coming from the upper radiator hose. I was a little low on coolant, maybe a quater of a gallon in the radiator. Although I consider this to be insignificant after topping the level off the damn thing starts a whole lot easier.
    Theroy #1 ....The temp sensor was not getting the proper flow and was reading warm engine temps before the engine was really warm, therefore not usesing the glow plugs and making my life a pain in the neck.
    Theroy #2 .... The damn thing was just pissed off at me because I haven't putz with her in a while, it has a personality I swear!! I gave her some attention and now she'll be good for a week or so. Maybe I'll just check my headlight fluid every day or something [​IMG].

    Let me know what ya guys think
    Thanks,
    Mike

    You call that dirty!?
     
  13. OFFRDK5

    OFFRDK5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Yea....they do have personality. If you don't pay attention to them they do get pissed off. Mine likes mud. If its clean it don't run good. If its full of mud and blowing chunks of mud everywhere and pulling a 10,000 trailer up a 45 deg hill at the same time it just ain't happy. Just last night I went off roading and to keep the area clean we needed to remove an engine block. Guess who got to carry that!! It was quieter and ran cooler and better. Its was happy. I can see it now...Diesel Group Therepy

    SK-15
    J**P...it's whats for dinner!
    Roads? Where we're going, we don't need any roads!
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  14. NewK5Guy

    NewK5Guy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    Watch out on the smoke. White smoke just means that it flooded out a bit while trying to start. That can be normal. When I do a throttle start on mine(about 10% throttle), it will belch a tad of white smoke. It's the black smoke you need to be careful of.
    Other bits: When was the last time you changed fuel filters?
     
  15. NewK5Guy

    NewK5Guy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: damn starting problems, please I\'m on my knees!!!!

    email me and I"ll give you the whole schtick out of my diesel tech manual(you really should buy it) catvguy@home.com
     

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