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dana 60 front spider gear welding questions

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by stevewix, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. stevewix

    stevewix Registered Member

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    do the spider gear welding instructions for NOT destroying the carrier found on this website apply to welding spider gears on a FRONT DANA 60? i am trying to get my truck all squared away for a new years hunting trip, and i would like to know if this will work. ideas?

    being aware of the characteristics of a fully locked front end, is this something i want to do? i decided that if it sucks, i'll take the spider gears out and put in a powertrax, but i would like some insight. this truck (as far as 4wd goes) will see 90%+ off road use with minimal street usage.
     
  2. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    I'd weld the piss out of it. D60 carriers are pretty cheap to repalce ($40?).

    The method shown on the tech section needs to be taken down. The gears will wear the welds and cause a lot of slop in the whole system.

    Most of the downsides of a locked/welded front are overcome with hydro assist. or, unlock a hub.
     
  3. stevewix

    stevewix Registered Member

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    welding it is!

    ok, upon inspection, it appears that the front dana 60 cross-shaft is pressed in (whatever it is, it's definitely not threaded, lol!) whatever, the whole point to this welding experience that that if and when it breaks, i'll do it right. at the present time, the welder is cheaper then the detroit.

    thanks for the reply, should i simply weld the hell out of the spider gears right onto the case? i'm going to take that as a yes in case i don't hear back, for now i'm going to try and gather some info on spider gear welding elsewhere, IE 'the old way'

    the method posted on this website seemed like a novel idea, i didn't think that it would eventually slop out.
     
  4. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    From BillVista's D60 bible...

    This is one of those 'ask 100 people, get 100 different opinions" kind of questions. I'll leave it to you to sort through it and decide what you think is best. Personally, all my side and spider gears are welded to each other and the carrier.

    Gears to gears and gears to carrier is the way I have seen hold. if you just weld the side gears and spider gears together all your force is on the pin. this may be ok on big axles like d60's, 70's, 14 bolt's, etc. but the pin can break when it is done like this on smaller axles.

    I like to get some real beef in there. In the old days (before Everybody had a MIG) we would throw some nuts and bolts in the weld area and burn them in for additional filler. I prefer not to weld to the casting of the carrier, but I know people who have done it without problems.

    If you have a DANA axle...weld the piss outta it...the new carriers are about $50-$75 new. The 14bolt carrier remains even if you buy a locker and they are $250 new...this is why people are only welding the spiders on the 14bolt. Just in case they go locker later....

    The first time I helped a buddy weld one up, we welded it to the carrier and ended up having to reset the gears cuz the carrier musta expanded or something.

    Well I can show you a way that has been tried and tested on front 44s and for 60s or any thing that you don't have to go in and pop out c-clips. Weld spiders to sides and sides to spiders on both sides and then take a rectangle piece of metal 3/8 thick or even thicker and drop it in on both sides and then weld it all the way around. Never has caused problems as of yet! 6 years going on 7.

    Everyone I've seen welded (we're poor up here in the hills so that's a lot) we just weld the side gears to the carrier and then fill between the spiders and side gears where they mesh. helps to heat (to get the gear oil out) then sand blast then clean really well before.

    Just weld the spiders to the case and also to each other. Start as far in as ya can then work your way out. it'll work fine. no need for high tensile or heating it up. Use a MIG so you can get further in to start, and weld everywhere they make contact. I've hammered mine hard and still no cracks.

    Take the ring gear off clean the carrier with brake parts cleaner or something similar. let it dry then lay down some type of welding prep spray to minimize splatter be sure to weld it HOT but not to the point it distorts the splines on the inside


    Got about 10 years on mine....daily driver. Most of the Lincolns that I've seen break were not welded to the case. In my opinion welding to the case makes the unit stronger as a whole. Just doing the spider gears puts all your faith into the x-pin. No different than a mini spool.


    I bathed the diff in solvent, and then heated it with a torch to burn off the residual oil. I used the TIG some, it worked fine but an awfully small bead, so I decided to try the MIG, and it worked fine BUT right after I welded where the side gears engage the spider gears each weld had a crack?
    What am I doing wrong? I routed out the cracks ( they weren't deep) and Fused them back together with the TIG, but my confidence is gone now until I figure out what I was doing wrong or what was set wrong with the machine - a big Miller power source with a wire feeder mounted on top of it, using 308 stainless wire, maybe I should change to mild steel wire?
    any ideas appreciated

    I have MIG welded stainless to mild steel and had it crack just like you are saying. use some regular mild steel wire. or just TIG it up completely with some mild steel rod.

    I used 308 stainless to arc weld my diff with no preheat and it did not crack when I welded it. I just took it out after a summer of mud bogs and there are still no cracks anywhere.

    Try to make the beads convex, concave beads are more likely to crack, also if you can lay a wider bead with a little less penetration the bead is less likely to crack, especially below the surface. Also watch the interpass temperature.

    I welded my rear diff last week for the jambo. Held up through the jambo, but when I pulled my diff cover off to fix a hole, I saw that all my welds had broken. I cleaned out the chunks and put it back together. Still locked up for a day or two, but now I am back to an open diff. That is the reason you get a spool over welding. I used too big of a rod and too much heat and I melted the gears instead of welding them. I am going to try it again with 6011 rod. It seems to work much better.

    What kind of rod did you use the first time? I'd use 7018 since its a 70,000 PSI rod instead of 60,000 PSI. It sounds like what you are saying is that if you get them welded good they are just as good as a spool?

    I welded mine about a month ago. I just laid weld every where. I used 7018. it hasn't broke yet. I peeled out on the dry pavement and it hasn't broke yet.

    I welded mine (front) with 7018 and Jack A's rear with a Millermatic 210. I also welded the side gears to the carrier, and multiple passes on everything. I've got almost a year of hard wheelin' on mine and about a month on Jack's. I've gone through 4 Birf's and it's still good.

    Isn't 7018 (mild steel) the wrong type of metal to be using on gears (high carbon steel)? would something like nickel rod with a little more give to it work better, or maybe stainless? and no, I'm not an experienced welder by far,

    I've heard 6011's work real well.

    My method is to clean very well, pre-heat, 7018, multiple passes, just weld the gears. I have probably done 10 rear ends this way ( clean very well, pre-heat, 7018, multiple passes, just weld the gears) and to my knowledge none have failed. Lo Hi is made for welding high carbon steel without cracking. 6011 is a very poor choice for high carbon steel
     
  5. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

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    I just dropped my D60 carrier off at my buddies last night to get all welded up. I am of the same philosophy that I would rater weld it and if I don't like it / can't deal with it then I will replace it later. For now, I wan't it locked and don't have the $$ for a Detroit. On mine he is welding the spiders / side gears together and not welding it to the actual carrier.
    I am also running hydro-assist, and if needed I will unlock a hub when in tight areas.
     
  6. seattlek5

    seattlek5 1/2 ton status

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    ...with one hand on the bender.
    I'll be welding that up tonight and finishing my truck too. I don't need the nuts for the steering arm, so don't bother pulling yours off.
     
  7. dheavychevy38

    dheavychevy38 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    how well does the crossover steering work compared to the stock push pull in this situation
     
  8. stevewix

    stevewix Registered Member

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    done!

    thanks for the info, the bible bit i found on another site, and it was very helpful. i am now tired as hell, still need to sit and pick the cherries off of the diff, but my buddy did a ladder weld in 8 places, that f'ers not going anywhere! :D

    sorry to post in a hasty manner, thanks for the help.
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    A lockright is 325 to the door, is it really worth it? It wasn't for me.
     
  10. stevewix

    stevewix Registered Member

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    well, considering if it sucks, all i've wasted is time and a carrier/spider gear set that i wasn't going to use anyways. worst case scenario i will have to put a detroit carrier in it, which is what i want to do anyways! i'm not going to spend 325 on a locker that works good, but is limited to the strength of the open carrier, which is what usually breaks anyhow. i firmly believe that after welding this up, there are a few RIGHT ways to do it, and a ****load of wrong ways. we'll see, i'll keep up with this thread and let you all know when i break it!


    i've got a lift in my shop next to a stand up air compressor, so it took me a matter of 45 minutes to tear it all apart. parts were flying everywhere!
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Dana carriers are weak now?
     

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