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dash and door speakers

Discussion in 'Audio' started by kustom71, Feb 23, 2004.

  1. kustom71

    kustom71 1/2 ton status

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    im using an alpine cd,radio basic no real bells and whistles power is listed as 45x4 and im guessing this is max with rms about 22watts.What i need is some recomendations for dash and door speakers?I have tried 4"cerwin vegas and 4" rockford fosgate both 2 ways mounted in dash and 6.5"pioneer 2 ways in the doors and niether sounds good.Any suggestions?These are in my 77 k10 and i also have a sub but not installed yet.
    Thanx /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
     
  2. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    How much money do you wan't to spend? I have a pair of 5.25" JL audio speakers in my kick panels and 6.5" JL's under the ashtrays. They are the cheapest line but I am very impressed with them compared to the other speakers I listened to. The sound quality depends a lot on what you are powering it with when it comes to a good speaker. I thought my speakers were always running at max when I would turn it up when my deck still powered them. It would get fuzzy and distorted and thought that an amp would blow these up but when I finally put an amp in for my highs I was amazed on how much louder they would get and still be crystal clear not to mention the much better sound quality with running the speaker harder. It was the deck itself that was getting fuzzy and distorted when I though it was the speakers.

    Anyway JL makes a great speaker, pioneer, Kenwood, and Rainbow is by far the best. I paid about $130 for eah pair of my JL speakers. /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    im using an alpine cd,radio basic no real bells and whistles power is listed as 45x4 and im guessing this is max with rms about 22watts.What i need is some recomendations for dash and door speakers?I have tried 4"cerwin vegas and 4" rockford fosgate both 2 ways mounted in dash and 6.5"pioneer 2 ways in the doors and niether sounds good.Any suggestions?These are in my 77 k10 and i also have a sub but not installed yet.
    Thanx /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]



    Are you ready for the truth?............ can you handle the truth!? (I feel like Jack Nicholson!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


    Ahem, there is no such thing as a DIN-sized stereo that puts out more than about 8 watts per channel. PERIOD. The EE's can chime in with the electronics proofs but the bottom line is that there is only SO much power that can be produced using 12V and straight DC current. Power amps must take the 12VDC from the battery and convert it to an AC waveform to get the massive "gain structure" needed to produce LOTS of watts.... and the circuitry to do a DC-AC-DC conversion won't fit in a dash mounted radio chassis.

    The numbers you see are pure "specmanship" 20W, 35W, 45W.....it's all B.S.

    That's one of the reasons why you're going to have trouble getting good sound from the built-in amp.

    The "other" reason is if you are trying to produce bass with those speakers and relying on that same "puny" amp to drive them. You will be better off installing a bass blocker on those speakers to limit their frequencies to 80Hz and above, and let a dedicated subwoofer amp handle the bottom two ocataves for you. The speakers should sound a lot better once they are playing a more reasonable set of frequencies....bass takes a lot of power.

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Ahem, there is no such thing as a DIN-sized stereo that puts out more than about 8 watts per channel. PERIOD. The EE's can chime in with the electronics proofs but the bottom line is that there is only SO much power that can be produced using 12V and straight DC current. Power amps must take the 12VDC from the battery and convert it to an AC waveform to get the massive "gain structure" needed to produce LOTS of watts.... and the circuitry to do a DC-AC-DC conversion won't fit in a dash mounted radio chassis.

    The numbers you see are pure "specmanship" 20W, 35W, 45W.....it's all B.S.

    That's one of the reasons why you're going to have trouble getting good sound from the built-in amp.

    The "other" reason is if you are trying to produce bass with those speakers and relying on that same "puny" amp to drive them. You will be better off installing a bass blocker on those speakers to limit their frequencies to 80Hz and above, and let a dedicated subwoofer amp handle the bottom two ocataves for you. The speakers should sound a lot better once they are playing a more reasonable set of frequencies....bass takes a lot of power.

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Damn Greg..you know your stuff! /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    That is very interesting /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    I can attest to the deticated subwoofer and "puny" amp for the highs. I ran a JL 250/1 amp with 2 JL 10's and my panisonic deck powering the highs. I had the bass turned all the way off through the highs and it sounded better that way like Greg is saying. It actually wasn't too bad for what it was and what money I had invested but there is no comparison when running a good amp to good highs.

    If sound quality isn't the most important factor compared to cost than I would go ahead and run some decent speakers with your deck and put your subwoofer in. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  5. kustom71

    kustom71 1/2 ton status

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    GREG72-maybe i should amplify the speakers i have now if what you said about the power in a radio is true then these spaekers rated at 20 and 70 watts rms need more power to sound good??????I still may replace them but is that what your saying?Oh yeah i did forget to say i am looking for sound qaulity at a good volume(maybe components)
    Thanx /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  6. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    So go ahead and get yourself some decent speakers, amp and hook it all up and I bet you will be much happier. Don't forget to get your bass in there too. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  7. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    GREG72-maybe i should amplify the speakers i have now if what you said about the power in a radio is true then these spaekers rated at 20 and 70 watts rms need more power to sound good??????I still may replace them but is that what your saying?Oh yeah i did forget to say i am looking for sound qaulity at a good volume(maybe components)
    Thanx /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Using a separate power amp for door speakers will be good mainly because you will most likely get a built-in crossover with the amp. That will allow you to tailor the frequencies that the speakers play and strip-out the low bass. Regardless of how much power you feed them, that change alone will improve their sound considerably.

    Also, don't get too caught up in the RMS watts and trying to make it match an amp perfectly. CLEAN power won't blow a speaker.... you'd be amazed how much power you can feed a speaker (above the RMS number) with no ill effects.

    There is a practical limit obviously....I doubt you'd bother running a 1000W amp to each tweeter, but anything within a reasonable power range will be close enough.... a 100W x 2 amp could feed your 70W speakers and a 50W amp could feed the 20W speakers (for example)...... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. kustom71

    kustom71 1/2 ton status

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    thanx i think ill try the amps before i throw away good speakers. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  9. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    thanx i think ill try the amps before i throw away good speakers. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That would be a wise move.
     

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