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Dead Diesel :update--1/2 the battle won!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by diesel4me, Aug 3, 2003.

  1. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I tried all week to move the truck,kept charging the batteries and rigged up a fuel can to the fender,and put the lines to the lift pump and injrctor pump,tried cranking it(not too long)no results--after much guesswork I decided to hook up a small electric fuel pump to help feed the lift pump--as soon as i turned it on fuel gushed out of the top bleeder on the fuel filter,it was left open by the last "meck-nic" that tried to fix it. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gifI closed the bleeder and tried again,but batteries were too low even with my van jumping it,so back to the charger for another night(only 6 amps!)then it rained all day and nite again yesterday, /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gifso I let them charge real good and today I tried it again and still no start and I did have fuel at the injector lines (the 2 I could loosen at least!)--batteries were starting to slow down again--tried jumping the glowplug relay with no results--I think they are all dead,the test light from bat + to glow plug test there is no light (glow plugs junk,right?)so at the advice of a local diesel mechanic he said to unplug the controller for the glowplugs and use ether as a last resort--after several small sqirts and lots of spark knock noises and no start I said well I'll try it once more and if it doesnt work,I'll have to start prepping the 500 caddy motor thats rusting in my shed--and to my amazement it started! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif and it clatterred like a light rod knock for a few seconds,and then it quieted right down,now after 30 minunites it sounds great and will restart in about 1 turn--dont know about when it cools off though,and only 2 glow plugs look recent(and no light when tested)and I think it will be a very risky proposition to get those original glowplugs out,anyone had any horror stories I might want to hear? /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif Thanks for all the advice on here I really appreciate it!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifit runs! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  2. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Well, the only way you'll find out if the glow plugs will come out is to try...my 6.2 had 7 bad GP's and they all came out with no problem.

    Replace them with some AC 60G plugs and give that a whirl. They will not burn out even if they get left on for minutes at a time.

    They do glow a bit slower so you may need to convert to manual control glow plugs. It's pretty easy to do.

    The reason it's a bit noisy when it first starts is that the timing is advanced while cold...then as it warms up the cold advance turns off and it quietens down.

    There is also a glow plug removal tool if they did break off, I am pretty sure MJ has either bought one or has a link for where to buy it. IIRC it's not that expensive.

    Rene
     
  3. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I guess I will have to be brave and try to remove the glowplugs--wish me luck!I assume to convert the system to manual overide the blue wire on the glowplug relay has to be grounded to activate it---there is already a starter button on the dash and a disconnected wire lying next to the relay-I plugged it in to the blue wire and pushed the button and the glowplug light comes on and relay clicks,so former owner must have used this setup.The fact that ether has been used on it makes me aprehensive about them busting off in the head--doesnt look like you could get a drill near the rearmost ones,and hope I dont have too.At least the engine runs and sounds good,the rap it had at first may have been from air in the injectors I think--now I can concentrate on the many other sins the truck has,I just hope I dont have to pull the heads off to get the glowplugs out(I think they are retards for only using 10mm thread,could they make them any smaller?)it reminds me of brake bleeder screws,so tiny they are certain to break.I dont have lots of $$$$ right now,summer fun is overiding spending much on this for awhile since its a replacement for my very rusted 74 gmc k20 plow truck,and isnt a big rush.I have to get cracking and buy 2 new batteries,the glow plugs,fix leaky tranny lines,havent even looked at the brakes,and ugh,hydroboost---hope that gives me no greif!On the + side the truck has a recently rebuilt th400 tranny,the transfer is a np241 aluminum case I think,it has an open 14 bolt rear in it(diesel smoked the right rear tire quite easily!) /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gifgear ratio unknown as yet.The motor supposedly had 80,000 miles and the guy paid 1200 for it at the boneyard--it might be a 6.5 havent checked the numbers yet,but since most 6.2's around here are 500 or less in the boneyard it may be a newer 6.5.I have to re-do all the fuel lines to the tanks they are mostly rubber hose all cut and spliced everywhere!All I need now is money and thats harder to get than anything lately! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gifI am interested in hearing more about that glowplug removal tool--I assume it works only if the plug unscrews all the way but wont let the tip come through--if the hex part snaps I'm doomed right???? /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gifOh well at least its in the garage now! Thanks for your help Rusty K5!!
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I assume to convert the system to manual overide the blue wire on the glowplug relay has to be grounded to activate it---there is already a starter button on the dash and a disconnected wire lying next to the relay-I plugged it in to the blue wire and pushed the button and the glowplug light comes on and relay clicks,so former owner must have used this setup.The fact that ether has been used on it makes me aprehensive about them busting off in the head--

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It could just be the previous owner swapped in newer glow plugs and needed the manual controller. Whoever had it last probably couldn't get it to start because they didn't know the GP's were manually controlled. I highly doubt the threaded portion of the GP's will give you any trouble, if they are the early fragile type they may be mushroomed though. Usually if a guy knows enough to convert to manual control he probably also knows enough to get better GP's.

    Yes grounding the blue wire is all it takes to make the GP's glow.

    Ether doesn't wreck GP's. GP's ignite ether and cause much 'other' damage.

    [ QUOTE ]
    On the + side the truck has a recently rebuilt th400 tranny,the transfer is a np241 aluminum case I think,it has an open 14 bolt rear in it(diesel smoked the right rear tire quite easily!) gear ratio unknown as yet.The motor supposedly had 80,000 miles and the guy paid 1200 for it at the boneyard--it might be a 6.5 havent checked the numbers yet,but since most 6.2's around here are 500 or less in the boneyard it may be a newer 6.5.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What year is the truck again? I'm assuming 3/4 ton seeing as it has the TH400. You should really fill out your profile a bit more...it really helps us.

    [ QUOTE ]
    if the hex part snaps I'm doomed right????

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've never heard of that happening, if there is a GP problem it's the tip mushrooming and breaking off inside the head. Don't forget you can always remove the injector for that hole to get the GP tip out. The injector hole is considerably larger than the GP hole.

    Rene
     
  5. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    where are you located?
    if local to me I can 'rent' you the glowplug tool, try and recoup some of its cost, $10 seems reasonable to me for loan of specialty tool
    I think they are $60usd or so to buy
    works good

    http://jjandaracing.com/index.html?target=Glow_Plug_Removal_Tool.html

    small family type backyard business

    my little brother used it and said it was great tool
    sure beats pulling the heads
    he did break the tip on the first one but was able to fish out through the injector hole
     
  6. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Sorry I dont know how to post the "profile"of my truck a the bottom of the page--I dont know how to run the computer very well--but I will list it here.The truck is a 1982 gmc K20 4x4,either 6.2or 6.5 diesel engine,and the transfer case is a 208,I read the tag wrong,I saw 2.61(thought it was 241)but thats the gear ratio,not the model #(duh)and it has a 10 bolt front end,looks like the gm corperate axle,it looks a lot different than my 74 K20 dana 44 front.The rear is a 14 bolt,but its not posi,at least it spins only 1 tire! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Its a 8ft.stepside with dual tanks.I dicovered yesterday the cold advance switch on the passenger side rear cylinder head is unplugged,I have to do a search for the plug that goes to it,its buried behind the bellhousing or may be missing altogether.Would that make it start hard,or not at all? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif All the glowplugs except the 2 center drivers side look original,but even the new looking ones dont light a test lamp when connected to bat + to glowplug--this is how you test one on a vw deisel,I assume its the same for gm--please correct me if I'm wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gifI am located in southeast mass near cape cod.Naturally since I'm poor I want to get out of this as cheaply as possible--but I dont cut corners where safety and reliability are an issue,I am hoping something expensive like the starter doesnt crap out so I can get the truck back on the road.The local diesel mechanic said the same thing about ether--its not that harmful if you dont let the glowplugs energize--but I hate using it at all.I think the reason I couldnt start it quicker is because I didnt give it enough ether at first--it took a healthy 3 second sqirt to fire it up.Well I'm going to save my pennies and get a set of those ac60G glowplugs and hook up my pushbutton switch and try to get the old ones out--I am glad that you can usually get the tips out through the injector holes,although I may wreck the lines if I touch em,they are a little rusty. I read that on the diesel page that you can use a shopvac to suck them out!.I really have learned a lot on this website! Thanks to all and GOD BLESS!. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    A multi meter works quite well for testing GP's. Set it to Ohms and red to tab and black to the threaded area. If the meter pegs the GP is fine. If it does nothing the GP is dead.

    The profile I meant is where your name and stuff is. Click on your user name and you'll see.

    Click on "My home"

    Select "personal information"

    For a signature that appears with every post fill out the box that says "Signature"

    Carry on down the page and it'll ask you about your truck, your 'bio' etc etc. Fill in whatever you're comfortable sharing.

    Rene
     

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