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death wobble *update*

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by smokkey1, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    I know what violent DW is! I’ve experienced it quite a few times in the past. I just a swapped in a front Dana 60 and it was driving very smooth with the 36's. so this morning I had some 38's installed and I didn't get them balanced. The truck drives smooth till about 30mph and then I would get a slight case of DW till about 40mph then it will go away. The tires run smooth concerting there not balanced and it drives pretty smooth all the way up to 70mph. So since the tires are not balanced will it cause it to have a slight case of DW?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2006
  2. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    yes, my 37" SSR's dont have DW at all, but when I put some used 38's on there, I got it at anything over like 30
     
  3. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    was it bad? how long would it last?
    cuase mine only last till about 40mph. it's not bad at all just annoying.
     
  4. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    it got REAL bad, so I always slowed down, I don't know if it would have gotten better, but If i flored it to say 40-45 it would be ok untill I slowed down, then it'd start again, unless i slammed on the brakes
     
  5. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    I know the feeling lol....... we'll I guess I"ll pick up some fender washers from HD in awhile and see if it's fixes it.
     
  6. MTMike

    MTMike 1/2 ton status

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    I had my 38.5" tires on some aluminum wheels balanced on a 3/4 ton front end with no DW or shimmy. When I put the D60 and H1's (noto balanced) on the front with the same tires I had baaaad death wobble. Shimming the kingpins didn't rid it either. I then put Hydro assist on and that band-aided it really well (and has tons of other benefits) and I have no more DW. I can feel it try to start every now & then and all I have to do is flick the wheel 1/8 of a turn and it goes away instantly.

    I say fix the source of the problem and balance the tires or get the upgrade that doubles as a bandaid: hydro assist.

    Mike
     
  7. camok5

    camok5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Death wobble is caused by bad harmonics in the front end so it can be caused by any number of things that is why its so hard to get rid of. It took me replacing the tre ends, new king pin springs and reseting my toe to finally get rid of it. Hydo assist and dual steering stabalizers only mask the problem but will help. I now run 38'' byass swampers and only 1 steering stabilzer and still hasn't come back. So to answer your question, yes the tires could be causing it but just balancing them might not fix it.
     
  8. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    thanks guys. I picked up some fender washers this afternoon. I'll put them in tomorrow and see if it helps.
     
  9. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Just so everyone knows, I've had a couple of speed wobble issues show up the V3500 in the last week or two. I will be ordering ORD's kingpin spring/bushing kit, and will post up with the results once I get the new stuff in. I figured since I"m going to all the trouble to get the caps off, I may as well swap out the old parts, especially since the new kit is only $17.:deal:
     
  10. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    hopefully it works out for you!
    mine is more of a very slow wobble at 30mph then goes away at 40mph. I've had very violent death wobble in the past with the old axle and that because I was driving around with a bald ass tire on the driver side front. as soon as I got a new tire on there it went away for good.
     
  11. jolane

    jolane 1/2 ton status

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    I just experienced DW for the first time this weekend...WOW! I just have 35's on 4" springs and ORD's HD shackles (front springs). The tires ARE balanced and like new. I never had an issue with my 10B on the same suspension. I have brand new ORD X-over and tie rod setup (thus no steering damper). I experienced it when I hit a small bump, hit the brakes hard (I was bedding in new pads), even for no particular reason it seemed. I tried accelerating thru it, but that did not help. Had to stop on a 50 mph 3 lane road! That sucked!

    So...I have been thinking about the issue. It seems like once it starts, it resonates the whole front of the vehicle. I figure there are several things going on, and I don't think it has to do with the tires (in my case). Once it starts, it doesn't stop until the vehicle is ~3 mph. First, I will be replacing the cones and springs. Next, I will try to put a single steering damper on there. I will also check the U-bolt torque. I have a feeling though that it is more than these things as the root cause. First, the axle is much heavier than the 10B it replaced. Are the shocks sufficiently damped to control the added mass? Probably not! Second, the reason we put the springs we do on our vehicles is for wheel clearance and flex. Well, the wheel clearance doesn't help any from a load standpoint. Basically, any side load on the axle goes through the springs and shackles to the frame. The moment arm is longer now with the lift springs/longer shackles, thus less stiff. Additionally, the springs are intended to ride softer. I think that the axle needs to be controlled laterlly, al la the panhard bar (or whatever people call it on 4x4's). Think about the Super Duty...they run Pan Hard bars on the leaf spring trucks. This will limit the lateral motion of the axle, so now the springs don't need to control this through twisting. A x-over can act like a panhard if you have the hydro-steering on there, thus the reason the hydro works as a band-aide.

    I have reas stories on here where guys have completely rebuilt their axles, yet still have DW. Then they tighten the U-bolts, and it goes away for a while. I think that the U-bolts are helping to stiffen the springs torsionally, thus allowing them to twist less...helping the DW.

    So, why don't stock trucks exhibit the DW? Well, the springs are reverse arched in most cases, so they have less moment arm, and are also probably naturally stiffer. They also are in a more stable orientation (reverese arched). This about balancing a hammer vertically on your hand. It is unstable (similar to the lifted truck). Now hang it between your fingers, it is stable (more like a stock truck).

    Imbalanced tires will always be a problem, especially with large tires.
    I think the root cause though is deeper. Alignment is probably also a reason (toe in alignment that is). Obviously worn parts is also problematic.


    So, the real solution (if my theory is correct) is to add a panhard to the leaf sprung trucks...or 4-link and coilovers (or similar). Personally, I would rather go coil-overs...but that isn't going to happen any time soon. I guess I will try to put a panhard in and see what happens. Anyone have any examples of this? How does my theory sound?


    Joshua
     
  12. liv24wheel

    liv24wheel Registered Member

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    I had HORRIBLE death wobble when I went to 39.5's Iroks with a stock tie rod. I had high steer and a heavy duty tie rod built with heims and it solved the issue. Try it and see if it works.
     
  13. Blazer79

    Blazer79 1/2 ton status

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    I lifted my Blazer and installed 35" BFG MTs and had no death wobble. Then I swapped 38.5" SXs with no other mods and I only drove about two blocks before I was startled by death wobble.

    I immediately turned around to the shop and checked bearings and tie rods and everything seemed fine.

    I saved some more and got a crossover steering with hydroassist, Spyder arms, new severe duty drag links with heim joints all new. But still I got DW with this new setup. I was outraged and couldn't believe it. It didn't happen so often now, but it still happened.

    Then one day I realized my steering box was loose. I tightened it up and that was the end of my death wobble.

    BTW, I've never balanced a tire larger than 31". I have beadlocks and those usually store over 3 pounds of mud. There goes your balance.
     
  14. K5er4Life

    K5er4Life 1/2 ton status

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    Dude, that death wobble is annying as all hell. After I completely went through and rebuilt my 60, the first time I had it out I had a good amount of wobble. A washer on each side fixed it and I have no problems since. But if I happen to hit the right bump just the right way, like a speed bump or something coming from the side. Then I will get some shaking but it goes away quickly. My crew cab had it too, also cured by so big washers.:wink1:
     
  15. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    I put 2 fender washers on each side and its gone now.
     
  16. K5er4Life

    K5er4Life 1/2 ton status

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    Is it difficult to turn? Sometimes you can get too much preload on the springs and the damn dont want to turn. I had two under mine the first time and my steering wheel wouldnt return to center without forcing it over. It was scary with different air pressures in the tires and the detroit in the back. The damn truck would be all over the road. Looked liked I was as drunk as can be. :eek1:
     
  17. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    nope, steering is pretty good. the steering centers it's self. I love crossover steering. I can make some tight turns now and I can't even tell the spool is even back there going around corners.
     
  18. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    I bought some new springs and bushings from ORD. I'll install them on sunday. its weird that it comes and goes after wheeling trips... must be a sign that they need to be replaced. It hasn't showed up for a few weeks now... but I thought I might has well install them anyways.
     
  19. Chaddy

    Chaddy 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Get yourself some fender washers to put under the caps while your in there, If you do, chances of DW comming back is slim.
     
  20. smokkey1

    smokkey1 1/2 ton status

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    that's what I did the first time around when I got DW....then it came back after my trip to hollister... then I had it for a whole week when I came back from that trip... then the following weekend I went up to our local muddin hole then it went away and it's still gone....
     

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