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Definition of serious use and half ton abuse

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by four_by_ken, May 16, 2002.

  1. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    IT must be people's opinions on what serious off road use and abuse is. Because, I know with what I consider serious use, there is no way large Boggers will not break stock 1/2 ton drivetrain. Period, that is a fact. I dont understand why people continue to dispute this.
    "My 1/2 ton never breaks with my 39.5 Boggers. And I beat the hell out of it."
    No way! Maybe last a while with some alloy shafts, CTMs and a lightweight rig. But, even then.

    Ken H.
     
  2. 74k5inVA

    74k5inVA 1/2 ton status

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    ok, i got it now. you had me confused, i thought you had /2 ton and boggers and said it won't break, i thought you had gone mad.
     
  3. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    i think a lot of the confusion comes from discussions from peeps that ONLY run mud... and peeps that do extreme trails and rocks. If you dont talk about what kinda wheelin you do, its hard to clarify what "beatin the heck out of my rig" really means. Toss in the fact that peeps often dont talk about the mods they are running when they say that their friends axles "never" break. I mean who knows, his axle may have chrome moly shafts, $150 u joints, beefy gears, good hubs, trussed housings etc etc.

    39.5s may do ok on half tons stuff if the axles were beefed a little and you just ran in mud.... but if you take 'em in extreme rocks... rubicon...moab... etc, at some point you're gonna destroy those 1/2 tons, its only a matter of time... and that "time" is a heck of a lot shorter than what you're talking about with a 1-ton rig. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    J
     
  4. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    You run serious mud trails?

    There is a lot of strain in the mud when spinning at 5500+ RPMs in 3+ foot mud. Especially when you hit something hard underneath there.

    I agree, that generally rocks are harder on parts, but mud can do a lot of damage also.

    I have a buddy that just got 39.5 TSLs and he is going to run them on his stock Jeep axles until he get s the new setup. We all cant wait to see the carnage.

    I am still waiting for someone to come back with there story going against me on this one. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

    Ken H.
     
  5. ChevBlazin

    ChevBlazin 1/2 ton status

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    One of my friends just broke his rear axle shaft (2 piece) on his CJ7 when pulling into a parking lot with 33" thornbirds. Since then he had a custom width dana 60 made /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  6. Swanson52

    Swanson52 1/2 ton status

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    I had this buddy who knew a guy that had 44 inch Boggers on a Chevy Luv with a big block and never had a problem... is this the kind of story you mean? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  7. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    >You run serious mud trails?

    I dont run mud at all if I can help it. What I was saying is that people often throw around terms like "serious mud" without definining what they mean specifically. You clearly defined what you mean by "serious"... so you're part of the solution... not the problem. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    At any rate, if the mud in your area is more sloppy-wet and you have a decent sized factory engine, you can mud like crazy for years, even with bigger than stock tires and not break anything. Of course, you could catch a bogger on the classic 6"-below-the-mud hidden tree stump and destroy your 1/2 ton axle in the first 5 mins... I was just refering to peeps who talk about how their axles "never break".... and how thats entirely possible even through quite a bit of flooring it through deep mud holes.

    j
     
  8. Quack_Addict

    Quack_Addict 1/2 ton status

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    If everybody waited until they had a 14FF, D60, SM465/NP205, doubler, Hi-po 502, 5.XX or 6.XX series gears, Detroit and ARB, 44's, $3k winch, $1k worth of bead locks and roll cage to go wheeling, hardly anybody would ever hit the trail and they wouldn't be able to pass a gas pump.
     
  9. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    One of the keys I have always thought as VERY important is also knowing the limits of your rig. Take me for example... I have factory 1/2 ton axles with aftermarket 4.56s and full Detroit lockers front and rear. I run 35" MTs. Back when I had my 170K mile 100HP or so 305, I wasn't too worried about breaking things. Just not enough power. Then again, I also didn't try to apply hard throttle in 4WD with the steering cranked all the way. That would just be stupid.

    Now I have a 300HP+ engine. Now I have to be much more careful as it would be a lot easier to break one of these little axles. On the trails, I spend as little time in 4WD as I can. And when I have to get on it to get up over something or out of a problem, I damn near pee in my pants waiting for something to break. So far, so good. Only thing i have ever seriously broken was a hub (in the mud no less when a spinning tire grabbed the side of the mud hole).

    I agree that one person's idea of "serious" and another's don't always mesh. But, with care and handling, the "norms" may not always apply. In general, 10-bolt axles will not hold up to larger tires (over 35") and/or hardcore off-roading. But, then again, I have seen well handled rigs do okay with bigger tires just as I have seen rigs with smaller tires grenade.

    There are "rules of thumb" and there are realities.
     
  10. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    (Ok, Ken's in jerk mode)
    Ok, so what is your point and what does it have to do with this thread?

    Ken H.
     
  11. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    You don't play on rock like some do. You got nothing but sand and dunes in MI.
    I watched both Keith and DepDog blow axle shaft on their front at the same spot on trail 9 (slick rock) within 10 minutes of each other. Neither one were really hammering it either. Full crank on the wheel and front locker. POW! After seeing the Yeild2me and Big J Bear opted for the cable in the spot. I helped Dep change shafts and Keiths Brother helped him. Deps truck is on 36's and I don't recall if keith was on 36's or 38's at the time.
    I'm going to go to CTM joints and aloy shafts as soo as the funds become available. I'm on 35's with a Lock right in the front and a Detroit in the back.
    Your running mud and sand where you got slip and your wheels mostly say pointed straight. That's why you not busting stuff. You will bust some one day. Enough throttle and you catch traction something will blow.
     
  12. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
    I think you misunderstood me. Reread my post. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    I destroy stuff in mud. So, how can 1/2 ton with Boggers last on rocks.

    Ken H.
     
  13. BIGJ

    BIGJ 1/2 ton status Author

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    They won't last if you're blowing them up in the mud. Big tires, a heavy right foot, and half ton axles combined with "serious" wheeling is an exercise in frequent trail repairs and lots of wasted $$$$.

    I would like to hear from someone with the CTM/alloy shaft combo in a fullsize.

    BIGJ
     
  14. DesertDueler

    DesertDueler 1/2 ton status

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    Well I have rockcrawled for 4 years with 1/2 ton axles (10 bolts). I have broke a right rear axle, rear spider gears, and a mini spool in a 12 bolt. I run 35s. I am not at all easy on my 1/2 ton axles (locker in front mini spool rear). I put hardened shafts in the 12 bolt then the mini spool broke. I also have a buddy that I rockcrawl with and he runs a 94 jeep wrangler with stock axles 4.56s and 35" BFG MTs. He beats the snot out of it, and has only broke the front left alxe. Its possible for them to hold up. My rig just became alot lighter after I rolled it 6 times, so since last summer its alot lighter. Another buddy runs 1/2 ford axles (dana 44, 9") in his jeep with a 350 LT1, th350, 205, and 38.5" SXs, and breaks a fron axle about every 5-6 months. He his hard a hell on it as well. Or look at Marvs /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    Dan
     
  15. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Uhhhh Gee I missed a "not" . Pass the dunce cap my way please LOL.
    So how's the snow? I don't miss it. To flat up there /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  16. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    I do get your point. I currently run a 12 bolt rear with Warn Full Floater, adding a Detroit, (broke the lock-right), and truss, up front is a bone stock D44 with EZ Locker and soon to be Warn Shafts. I do break parts. I ran 37" Boggers for well over a year and destroyed a carrier, ring gear and numerous shafts. I am typically a pro-1/2 ton guy, but I do think they have their limits. I would say my 12 is fairly close to the strength of a rear Dana 60 with exception of the ring gear size. I plan to go 1 ton someday. Just dont see the point in going 3/4 ton. I may actually give the 12 another chance and re-drill the Warn hubs and rotors for 8 lug, then install a 60 up front. But, its just as easy to sell the 1/2 ton stuff and buy a junkyard 14 bolt and never have a problem!

    I think the type of wheeling, tranny and tire size sum up the equation. I have a Manual tranny at the moment untill I install an auto and my WMS Dual Case kit. I think the Manual is harder on my parts than the auto will be. However, adding the dual case, it will up the stress on parts.

    My delima is, I want to run 42s someday. My 1/2 ton stuff just is not going to stand up to it.

    I currently run 38x15.5" tires. I broke one u-joint at Disney this last run. I would assume I will break more.
     
  17. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    You kind of just added to my point. You are running 35s on your 1/2 ton stuff and still put some work into them to make them stronger, for 35s.

    I was talking more about large tires. Like 40+ on 1.2 ton stuff. Especially on heavy full size stuff.

    Your buddy with the Jeep is right on the border in my opinion. I was a little over the line with my Jeep. 454 and 39.5s. 10 bolt front. I kept it open and the front tires were quite worn ou. I think that is the only reason my stuff lasted in the front of the Jeep. 14 bolt in the rear didnt break.

    Ken H.
     
  18. TX Mudder

    TX Mudder 1/2 ton status

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    Serious use for me is revving the tires at 5000 rpm in the mud. That's what we have around here.
    I think rockcrawling has to be harder on axles because of the increased traction.
    As far as 1/2 axles go, I broke my 12 bolt driving on the street on my way to work. I went around a corner, the engine bogged, and when it came to life it went POP to the rear axle. Drove to work anyway with the lever in 4-hi.
    -- Mike
     
  19. DesertDueler

    DesertDueler 1/2 ton status

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    I just recently "upgraded" my 1/2 ton. I built the 12 bolt after I rolled the truck and had to regear, and I figured why not go with hardened axles. Like I said I only broke one before tha in a 10 bolt, and I was trying to pull a guy out that was high centered really bad, got him out, but broke the axle /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    Dan
     
  20. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    There are just way too many variables and opinions to every get any straight answer on this topic. We have over 70 members in our club and the idea of what tough fourwheeling really is varies from one end of the scale to the other. Driving style/habits are another huge variable as is the type of terrain you run on.

    For example, we have one long time member who had wheeled a Jeep Wrangler with the stock Dana 35 rear, Dana 30 front, both with lockers and 33" to 35" tires and a built 4.0L for at least 5 years and has broken only 2-3 times. He runs all of the hard trails also and is not afraid to stand on the pedal....if needed. In this case driver experience let's him know exactly what is needed to get over an obstacle and when to get off the gas.

    On the other hand we have a guy with open diffs and 32" tires who has broken several times and he doesn't go on the harder trail rides.

    I have never seen anybody break a drivetrain component in a mud hole. Now granted, we typically don't have trucks with 500 hp and 40" tires with us and the mud we go through is usually just what is required to get down the trail. All of the failures I have seen are when twisted up in rocks and on dry hills.
     

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