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Detroit Diesel in Pickup?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by HerculesEngine, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. HerculesEngine

    HerculesEngine Newbie

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    Hi all- I was reffered to this site by a friend of mine; I am currently a freshman in college. Anyways, I have been interested in older trucks for quite some time (mainly any diesel powered commercial trucks from 1940s up to 1970s.) I was just curious if anyone here has ever put a Detroit in a Pickup before? I know of a couple people that put a 353T in a F250 Ford, a 453 in a Ford Bronco just to name a few. I'd love some more insight on putting one in a pickup. I was tossed between a 3208 NA Caterpillar, which is overkill for the 73 Ford 350 I was planning on putting it in, or a 353 Aluminum in something like a K20. I really think something like a 6v53 would be overkill, and a 6v71 would need some major modifications to fit under the hood of any pickup truck that I can think of. BTW- the 353 aluminum block has the back of the blower cast off, so it can be turboed, another reason for putting it in a pickup. Any insight to tranny, xfer, rear specs and anything else you can think of is appreciated.

    Thanks!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2006
  2. MNorby

    MNorby 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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  3. roadnotca

    roadnotca 3/4 ton status

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    Welcome. As you can see, we don't know from overkill.:haha:
     
  4. ARAMP1

    ARAMP1 Aviator Extraordinaire Premium Member

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  5. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    If you're referring to the actual 12.7 litre on up detroit diesel engines like whats in the OTR big rigs,,,GOOD LUCK:eek1: those engines stand nearly 5 feet tall from bottom of oil pan to valve cover:D

    They are some big mo'fo's, but the power to weight ratio would be KILLER !!!
     
  6. atho

    atho 1/2 ton status

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    I am curious how much weight a D60 front axle could handle. I know offhand that the Cummins 6BT weighs around 1100 lbs, and the Cat C7 (new 3126) weighs ~1300. How much do these Detroits weigh?
     
  7. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    i am unsure of the smaller ones, the one i was talking about, and was joking about is the series 60 detroit, it weights 2640lbs (1199kg)

    http://detroitdiesel.com/Public/specs/3sa353.pdf :D
     
  8. Drey

    Drey 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    Go find a old Ag Chem Terragator and rob the 3208 out of it, while your at it snag a Eaton Fuller 13speed:D
     
  9. ARAMP1

    ARAMP1 Aviator Extraordinaire Premium Member

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  10. colbystephens

    colbystephens 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    for what it's worth, the 6.2 diesel engine that chevy put in their trucks is a detroit. ;) probably not what you're looking for, but i've seen dyno records show about 200 horsepower and upwards of 500 lbs of torque at the flywheel. rather respectable, if you ask me.
     
  11. Robert79K5

    Robert79K5 1/2 ton status

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    I would think that in a one ton truck you would be sevearly dissapointed with a 353. Thats only 159 cubic inches. Im sure it makes enough torque to get the truck rolling but I wouldnt think it would haul anything worth a flip, or get out of its own way for that matter, but iv been wrong before.

    I used to work for Williams Detroit Allison here in Atlanta. I was a four cycle guy, so mainly all I did was rebuild/troubleshoot/fix series 60 and 50 Detroits. The series 50 is just a series 60 with two cylinders lopped off. Its a great engine and as far as the wiring part goes it would be really easy to adapt to just about anything. I promise while either one would be a whoop-ass engine to have in a truck its way too big to consider (I know how you guys think) even for a one ton truck.

    Now what Im thinking would be a cool project is to get a series 50 and a 2.5 ton truck frame and mount a light duty truck body on it. Now that would be a serious tow rig.

    I love threads like this. Get the gears in my head turning.
     
  12. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    The ISB Cummins weighs about 1K. A Dodge D60 with balljoints doesn't like much more than that. If you have an aftermarket huge bumper with a winch you are pretty much near max on what the front 60 will take before wearing through bearings and balljoints to quick.

    An older D60 with king pins and standard style bearing hubs can probably take another 100-250lbs or so than a Dodge 60, but don't quote me on that.

    I don't think I'd waste my time with a Cat 3208, if I was going Cat I'd look for a 3116. It weighs about the same(may even be a little lighter, it weighs about 200lbs more than a Cummins ISB)and makes more power, inline 6 power that is. I wouldn't go with a V8 diesel.

    Another consideration is an older JD inline 6, they weigh right around what the ISB and 3116 does and are excellent motors.

    Detroits suck, those older 2 stroke diesels can't compete against a 6BT, 3208, 3116, and any inline 6 JD 6L.
     
  13. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    I resent that notion. Working on Detroits every day, they really are great motors. EGR is what made them suck.

    Those older two-strokes have more power strokes at the same RPM than any four stroke....double, in fact. They are easy to juice up, as well. One guy had an old 8v in a Freightliner that he'd take to shows. That thing would light up ALL of those tires on the back...no joke. 8V71 was rated (and even known in lingo) as 318. That's 318hp with no adjustments. Tweak the governor and a few other little tricks and that number grows quickly.

    6bt's don't get CLOSE to that Det's stock power without mods (since it's a medium duty motor), 3116 range is 125 to 300hp usually(from what runs into the shop...and is a medium duty motor)...that's still below the old guy's power.

    The only thing about those old Det's is that IF you are setting up the rack and governor and you are not careful, they WILL run away on you, so only let people that know what they are doing around it.

    Someone mentioned just programming the ECM for power increase...this is true, but not in all situations. You can turn up the power by changing the program, but the engines have a limit built into the software, so after a point you have to buy the program for more power....also, some motors have physical differences (cooling nozzles, etc.) so that you CAN'T turn the motor up all the way without melting the head. If you program it for power, take it to a shop to make sure it can handle the power increase.

    4xcrazy, 12.7 liter? NO WAY! Go for the 14 liter!!! 515hp/1650ft.lbs. in it's top rating.:eek1:

    Robert79k5, the only thing that sucks is Series 50 parts are getting hard to find (depending what you are looking for):( . We had to wait three weeks for parts for one on a bus we had in the shop. I'd just stick a 60 in it...hehehe:D Then you don't have to deal with them balance shafts.
     
  14. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    We have 11 Series 60 Detroits that are running up and down the road. They are great engines. I was refering to the engines in question by the original poster, those older 2 strokes are not up to par with the later (now they are getting older too) inline 6 engines.
    While my dad used to tweak some of his 8V71's, 6V92's, and 8V92's....they still wouldn't run with a turned up Big Cam Cummins. It's the torque, they were higher RPM happy revers but didn't lay down the big torque like the inline's. Those older 2 strokes put out more emmissions too. I've never been real impressed with them.

    Like I said, I'd consider a 3116, ISB, 6BT, or maybe some sort of late model 6-7Litre computer controlled inline 6 Detroit.
     
  15. HerculesEngine

    HerculesEngine Newbie

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    Hey all- Thanks for the replies.

    I figure I'd see someone who said I might be dissapointed with a 353 :p: . For starters I plan on using a turbo off a 6V53 twin turbo, and larger injectors. The motor in question is an aluminum block motor that uncle sam spec'd for off road army vehicles, and has 2 oil pumps in the event it was going up a steep grade. That being said, the back of the block is cast off, no plate and gasket like the naturals, so boost isn't "so limited" to a certain pressure as before (why turboing a natural detroit is a bit of a problem). Like I said all this has been done before by others, one I know right off the top of my head is a 353T turbo block with natural pistons and the same turbo and injector setup I plan on using. Needless to say I would be weary of punching the throttle hard- might break something :D.

    As for the throw away motor I planned on using (aka 3208), I know where there is one in an 80s twin screw Topkick, and I beleive it has a 13spd fuller in back of it. Runs great, would be a shame to part it from the truck, both are from texas and in nice shape. Only problem with the 3208 is that I find they are a hyper motor and a pickup driveshaft and axle breaker, and 6?? cubes is a big motor to start with. Lots of front end weight there, while a cast iron 353 weighs a hair more than a big block. Personally, I am looking to build a daily driver, and the 353 that I plan on building up would be best suited. I know of several cats (3208s and larger) put under the hoods of 70s Fords, have considered them as well. Although, the Ford body makes it worth a hell of a lot less. Maybe even a 3304 with a turbo?? Its a good deal smaller. As for the 6.2L I don't mind them terribly, but I plan on building something with a commercial motor. Not a big fan of the B Cummins, I know of a couple 3.4L A's (from Grumman vans.) Even a V6 cummins out of some construction vehicles would be a neat build :laugh:. As for the Internationals, they arent terrible in my opinion, although you go to the dealer for parts and the money you spend would make a grown man cry. DT466 is out of the question... fuel mileage sucks, but they do last a good long time.
    I guess I have more research to do- If I get really ambitious and loose my sanity some more I might do up a 5.7L Olds:haha: Anyone have some more pictures of the stuff they built? I thought that 6V53 in that 3500 looked cool along with the 353 in that 1/2 ton pickup. Thanks for the replies, and any more feedback or input is appreciated.
     
  16. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    Oh, I see...had to bring in the big cam!:p: Great engines...:D
     
  17. Robert79K5

    Robert79K5 1/2 ton status

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    Hey are they still using ceramic injector rollers? and if so have they figured out how to keep them from exploding?

    Also what level of DDEC are they at now? When I got out of the business they were developing what would be DDEC five but our trainer was telling us they were going to give it some cool name like "DDEC X"
     
  18. atho

    atho 1/2 ton status

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    I was browsing Cat's website last night, and found the 3054 (I think thats the model). Inline 4, turbo, weighs 627 lbs, 122 hp/317 tq. Sounds like good competition for the 4bt, but I think they only came in backhoes and gensets, so might be a little harder to find one.
     
  19. camiswelding

    camiswelding 1/2 ton status

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    tdr has a cool dodge 600 4wd thread going right now,,, waiting for a cummins
     
  20. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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